4ª edição do melhor RPG do mundo.

[Arcanjo[SK]]

Até o presente momento eu tava pensando: "Bah, que tri! D&D 4ª edição!". Depois de ter lido esse post do Arcanjo minha cabeça explodiu. D&D hoje é o Tarrasque do RPG. O D&D 4DVENTURE vai ser o Asmodeus.

Perae, isso é bom ou ruim?


Agora viajei...

 

[Tilion]

Em termos tolkienianos: D&D é o Boromir do RPG. D&D 4ª ed. será o Húrin.

 

[Ka Bral o Negro]

Desisto. Ficarei com a ed. 3.0 até enjoar.

 

[Skywalker]

Perae, isso é bom ou ruim?


Agora viajei...

O Asmodeus é O cara, basicamente falando.

 

[Taverneiro]

vcs viram a capa dos core rulebooks? eu gostei, tem um "ar" AD&D, com ilustrações ao invés de imitar tomo antigo. Cara, se eles tirarem oq eu nao gosto do 3.5 vai ser legal... tomara q o jogo fique mais ágil mesmo...

 

[Skywalker]

vcs viram a capa dos core rulebooks? eu gostei, tem um "ar" AD&D, com ilustrações ao invés de imitar tomo antigo.

Eu pensei a mesma coisa! Tomara que os boxes voltem também.

 

[RPGISTA]

Mais um link interessante, sobre um seminário da WOTC na GenCon, que acho que aconteceu ontem.

Colocquei um bold no que achei mais interessante em relação às novas regras.

http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?p=13457928#post13457928

What follows are my notes from the Secrets of D&D seminar, held Friday at GenCon:

Alright, here goes, cleaned up so they should make some sense. First off, the Santa Fe room was a lot smaller than expected- the event guide say max numbers for the event was 200- that's about 50 over the listed Max Person Number. So, lots of people standing or sitting on the floor.

Andy Collins, Mike Mearls, Rich Baker, and Bill Slavicsek presented this, with Andy leading (and if you don't recognize the names, you haven't cracked open a D&D book in the last few years)

They started off with going over the upcoming products. Some are 3.5. Several are 3.5 with D&DInsider info planned, which should make them useable in 4E. These include Exemplars of Evil (major nasty bad guys), Dragons of Eberron, City of Stormreach, Elder Evils (mini-adventures which can involve the guys from Exemplars, as well as Cthulu-type stuff), and Deserts of Desolation, the next mini expansion which will include 4E monsters, with revisions like the new troll and new ones like the Fire Archon shown on the box art. And then there are the Edition-Proof stuff; coffee table books like Dungeon Survival Guide (art spreads of famous dungeons), books like Confessions of a Part Time Sorceress, Dungeon Tiles, and Inn Fighting, a new noncollectable dice game.

In December, we should expect to see the first major 4E preview, Classes and Races. January brings Worlds and Monsters. Both should have lots of concept art and more. After that will be Dungeons of Dread, another mini expansion; one concept art shown for this was a four armed skeleton.

The PHB is due out in May; in April, we'll get Keep of Shadowfell, the preview adventure. It will have quickstart rules and pregens, so you can start playing right away. It will focus on how 4E will approach encounters differently, including noncombat encounters, social encounters, and dynamic battlefields.

May 2008 is the release of the PHB. They stressed that this is an evolution, not a revolution- so, a more gradual change than the switch from 2e to 3e.
-30 levels, so epic support in the core.
-easier to DM. Rather than the current standard where 4-5 PCs face off against a single monster, they want groups of pcs to fight groups of monsters, and still have it go smoothly.
-Defined roles: make it clear how each character is supposed to contribute, but give the character the tools to do their job, and then other stuff. So, if your healer is a druid, he'd be able to heal, and still have all this other stuff that ties into his being a druid. I'm probably not explaining this well, but the point is, each character will have a role, and whoever you pick for that role can fill it, but that is not the be-all end-all fo the class.
-New power sources- Arcane, Divine, Martial, and eventualy Psionic (not core, but it will be supported) so that everyone has choices, beyond clerics and wizards choosing which spell to use, while the fighter gets to choose how much he power attacks by.
Is this a power up? Yes and no, more toward the no but now everyone gets to make meaningful choices.
Tome of Battle was held us as an experiment to give fighters spells, a successful experiment in WotC's eyes by the sound of it.

Every class will have abilities that function At Will, Per Encounter, and Per Day. So, still resource management, but even if you use all your per day spells, you still have other options. A specific example- a wizard should never have to rely on a crossbow because he's out of spells.

When leveling, you'll have about one decision each level- a new feat, a new power, something. There will be lots of options, but you only have to worry about this one category.

They want to get away from the reliance on magic items. Magic items will still be a part, but as tools; you'll be cool because of what your class lets you do, not because of your stuff.

Level division:
1-10 Heroic- foes are orcs and ogres, some giants, small dragons. Adventures tend to be local
11-20 Paragon- on par with the current low to mid teens right now. Bigger threats are faced that might threaten a kingdom
21-30 Epic- World or Planar threats.
The goal is to have the levels play in a similar manner- they don't want a 25th character overwhelmed with 80 abilities. The main differences should be in the story, not how they play.

PHB and MM should both be 288 pages, the DMG 256.

There will be a new encounter design, with more monsters in a typical encounter. The monsters will have their own roles and their own abilities- the orc will have orc abilities, not fighter or barbarian abilites; Mearls offered up an acid spitting orc shaman as an example that was heartily embraced by the rest of the team.

June sees the release of the MM. I hope you guys get to see the pics of the prototype gargantuan Orcus- very cool. He's also featured on the MM cover. They're hoping for about 300 monsters on the 288 pages; with smaller stat blocks, it might work.

Things that aren't changing:
-This is still a tabletop RPG (although that tabletop could be online)
-It is still a game with cooperative storytelling.
-Still Medieval fantasy, and they were pushing this. Greyhawk is out as the default setting; they don't want kingdoms and empires spanning the globe. Instead they want points of light in the darkness; there's little travel between these points of light, and those that do stick to the roads. Adventurers are the guys who go off the roads.

There will be some sample gods in the PHB, and building blocks for making your own. Figures like Asmodeus, Tiamat and Orcus will all still factor into the game. There are still some Greyhawkisms, like Vecna, Modenkainen and Bigby. They want to give the DM more flexability.

Options not restrictions is a key point. Make it easier to make characters that don't suck.
-a question came up, does this mean the end of Vancian spell casting? Answer, yes and no. There'd still be elements of it, but a wizard who casts all his memorized per day spells should be at about 80% of power.

-Still D20, still have the OGL, but modified (I wasn't able to attend the OGL meeting that night). The skill system would be truncated; if you want to be a tailor, write tailor on your sheet because they're tossing profession: tailor. The focus will be on active skills. Some skills are getting combined. Who buy Hide without Move Silent? Almost no one, so they're getting combined. Skills will also be more interactive; diplomacy should be more than just a single die roll.

What about conversion? They admitted the conversion guidelines they'd put out had never covered everything. Now, there are 8 years of books, how could they convert them all? What has been done as WotC staff games moved from 3.5 to 4E, they would build up the character from the ground up, making the as they thought he/she should be. Rich mentioned his 8th leve Warmage/Warblade. He picked 8 levels of classes and ended up with a character that he felt captured his original intent. Andy talked about his brother's spelltheif, which was remade as a wizard/rogue that really got the magic-using rogue feel that was intended.

DMG in July

The 4 Parts of 4E
-Physical Products
-Community
-Organized Play
-Digital Offerings

D&D Insider
-A lot of stuff on that's been on the website for free- previews and such, will still be free
-Subscription should cost about what a Dragon and Dungeon subscription cost, but it sounds like there will be more overall content.
-Dragon and Dungeon should still be the place for newcomers to get published.

Now into answers to questions

Prestige classes will still exist, but different. They want to make them easier to integrate. They also don't want you to have to stop being your core class to enter a prestige class- you could be a frenzied berserker but you'd still advance as a barbarian. They couldn't say much on this.

They want to make it so you don't have to plan so far ahead. Retraining akin to the PHB2 rules should help. Also getting rid of some- not all- feat trees. Whirlwind was an example here, with 5 or so prereqs; they don't want you to have to spend several levels working toward something.

Multiclassing will be more useful. No more bogus combo- a fighter/wizard shouldn't be a character who sucks as a fighter and sucks as a wizard. To help with this, they're trying to smooth out the power curves.

XP will be easier; no more comparing CR to party level to find out how much they're worth. CR is also gone, melded into monster level. To build an encounter, you determine the XP value you want, and then pick out monsters that total that XP value. This should also make it easier to modify encounters.

A question on grim and gritty play was that it wouldn't be addressed in the PHB, but maybe in the DMG- though not necessarily the first DMG.

For monsters, the focus is going to be on what the monster is likely to do. As they did from 3.0 to 3.5, they'll cut out a lot of monster abilities because a monster with a life expectancy of 7 rounds doesn't need 30 abilities.

Digital issues of Dungeon and Dragon (the compilations at the end of each month) should be useable offline. D&DInsider expansions for books will probably require you to be online (and they are working on how to keep someone from copying a code in the store and logging on with it)

Wizard and Sorcerer are being pushed further apart; there will be a bigger difference in the classes than just resource management.

A common phrase with R&D is "Class X kills Class Y and takes his stuff." Example- Ranger and Scout cover a lot of the same themes. Are both needed? Not really, so Ranger kills Scout and takes his stuff; the scout is out, but his abilities will be kept as options for the ranger.

This is not 4.0, this is 4th Edition; they do not want a 4.5. Errata will be downloaded into the virtual copies of the book.

Monsters are not going to be designed with the idea that they might be used as PCs, as it was felt this limited monsters. Some monsters will be obvious choices as races; goblins and such. The goblin won't have as much support as a core PC race, but with enough interests, it might get more in online enhancements.

There will be slightly fewer core classes, since each will take up more space.

Alignment will not be as it is now. Andy Collins doesn't want it as a mechancial element, Bill backs him, so Andy's getting his way.

Will magic item creation use XP? No. Hell No! XP are not a resource. So says Andy, and again, he gets his way. Likewise, no monsters eating XP.

Every adventure published in Dungeon online should be portable to the virtual table top.

They want to make active cool things for races, so that a dwarf fighter is really different from an elf fighter, and more than the dwarf getting +1 to damage vs goblins. Mike spoke about his dwarf fighter, who took a beating and kept going, because he's a Dwarf fighter.

Conscious avoidance of ECL- it was a kludge they want away from. Since they don't want everything to be playable, that should help.

And that's the end of my notes. Hope you've learned something new looking through those words.

 

[Arcanjo[SK]]

Nao entendi direito o treco de XP... parece melhor, mas não entendi direito.


Mas no resto, mas mudanças, até agora, parecem mto interessantes.

Estou curioso para ver previews mais concretos. nem sempre boas idéias conseguem bons resultados, mas espero que este não seja o caso.

 

[Skywalker]

They want to get away from the reliance on magic items. Magic items will still be a part, but as tools; you'll be cool because of what your class lets you do, not because of your stuff.

Eu aposto meu Ptolus como essa frase foi dita pelo Mike Mearls.

 

[Arcanjo[SK]]

http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=908272


Primeiro "Faq" do 4ª edição....


Tá né....

 

[Elda King]

Eu acho que fui uma das poucas pessoas (ao menos aqui no Brasil) que achou uma 4ª Edição de D&D legal desde o princípio... Mas agora que saiu um pouco de informação, eu estou realmente na expectativa: tudo que eu esperava de uma nova edição (exceto talvez uma capa mais legal, embora as capas já estejam muito boas) parece que vai sair.
Melhoraram o sistema de magias (e parece que muito), flexibilizaram as classes (ao invés de 11 classes básicas e mais 30 em suplementos, parece que vão haver menos classes só que vão ser mais flexíveis, preenchendo todos os papéis), tiraram o excesso de itens mágicos, entre outras coisas.

 

[Taverneiro]

Eu acho que fui uma das poucas pessoas (ao menos aqui no Brasil) que achou uma 4ª Edição de D&D legal desde o princípio...

Somos dois. Curti as mudanças, era oq eu odiava na 3.5 e parece q nao era o unico... só espero q nao simplifiquem algo para complicarem outras coisas...

 

[Fafa]

Isso é a mais pura verdade. Essas editoras de RPG não têm escrúpulos. Elas deviam criar edições definitivas de seus RPG e se aposentarem, fechar as portas, assim não precisaríamos nos preocupar com novas edições.
Aliás elas deviam nos dar livros de RPG de graça, e não cobrar por eles!
Isso tudo é um absurdo, maldito capitalismo.
Nem mesmo os RPGs independentes escapam dessa realidade, aqueles hipócritas.
Ahh o RPG em Cuba e na Coréia do Norte deve ser uma maravilha, aquilo que é RPG!
Imaginem, Las aventuras de Che Guevara D20!

Em Cuba a infância não vai até os 30 anos de idade, o que torna o RPG desnecessário.

Discute-se muito nas pseudo-democracias burguesas, que adotam o sistema capitalista, o fim (ou pelo menos, abrandamento) da propriedade intelectual. Nem é preciso dizer quão absurdo é mercantilizar um joguete. Agora também vou cobrar para quem quiser dançar ciranda ou brincar de amarelinha comigo.

 

[Tilion]

Tipo, vai pregar as tuas ideologias lá na esquina para quem tiver saco de te ouvir, não neste tópico.

 

[Armitage]

Contenham-se crianças.

São só jogos.

 

[Fafa]

Tipo, vai pregar as tuas ideologias lá na esquina para quem tiver saco de te ouvir, não neste tópico.

Não tenho o hábito de responder a quem inicia frases com "tipo". Mas sou a obrigado a deixar bem claro que não me importo nem um pouco se você tem saco ou não para me ouvir, seja neste tópico ou em qualquer outro.

Contenham-se crianças.

São só jogos.

Precisamente.

 

[Taverneiro]

Discute-se muito nas pseudo-democracias burguesas, que adotam o sistema capitalista, o fim (ou pelo menos, abrandamento) da propriedade intelectual. Nem é preciso dizer quão absurdo é mercantilizar um joguete. Agora também vou cobrar para quem quiser dançar ciranda ou brincar de amarelinha comigo.

Então baixe o SRD e jogue D&D sem ter D&D. Além disso voce distorceu a concepção de jogo como maneira geral. Tudo tem um custo pra ser feito, bem diferente da amarelinha: impressão, esforço dos profissionais em fazer regras condizentes com a proposta do jogo e desenvolver produtos interessantes. Conhecimento livre só existe se alguem por a mão na massa, e ninguém é tonto de trampar de graça. Além disso isso não acrescenta nada ao tema do tópico.

 

[Tilion]

Contenham-se crianças.

São só jogos.

Não to falando da preferência dele por este ou aquele jogo (ainda mais porque ele não deve ter nenhuma, pelas merdas que diz), mas sim o fato de ele aproveitar o tópico (e todos os outros do Fórum) para dar uma de "troll" e despejar essas pérolas pseudofilosóficas.

É um saco, etc.

Não tenho o hábito de responder a quem inicia frases com "tipo". Mas sou a obrigado a deixar bem claro que não me importo nem um pouco se você tem saco ou não para me ouvir, seja neste tópico ou em qualquer outro.

Tipo, eu escrevo do jeito que acho melhor dependendo do nível da pessoa a que me refiro. Como o teu não é lá essas coisas, não tenho que me esforçar muito.

E se tu tem saco ou não, não importa. O que importa é tu chegar fazendo "trolling", coisa que é básica e obviamente contra o bom andamento de qualquer discussão em um fórum, de modo que tu tá sem razão e só abre brecha para advertências, malandrão.

 

[Fafa]

Além disso isso não acrescenta nada ao tema do tópico.

E não era esta a minha intenção. Eu manifestei na página 2, de maneira sucinta, a minha insatisfação com a empresa das cartinhas ter se apoderado de um joguinho saudável (meu favorito na pré-adolescência) e começado a lançar edições em curto prazo, por razões fincanceiras.
Foi então que algumas crianças furibundas (de idades variadas) partiram para o ataque verbal, por razões inextricáveis.

de modo que tu tá sem razão e só abre brecha para advertências, malandrão.

ADVERTÊNCIAS??????? Ó, o que será de mim?

 

[Tilion]

Será um usuário banido, provavelmente, para o bem de todos os outros usuários do Fórum, e aí tu vai poder berrar aos quatro ventos o quanto o "sistema" te "oprime".

E aproveitando: 4th FTW!