Quem é Tom Bombadil?

[Ilmarinen]

Gostei muito da sacada de Bombadil ser Tolkien.

Certamente há quatro coisas bem intrigantes sobre o bom e velho Tom, que são:

1) Sua palavra é a Lei;

2) Não foi gerado por quem quer que seja;

3) É o mais antigo habitante de Arda, já estava aqui antes até dos Ainur;

4) É completamente imune ao Elemento Morgoth e inclusive tem poder sobre artefatos construídos para captar o Ingrediente Melkor (fez o Anel desaparecer, lembram-se disto?).

Ou seja, se ele não é Eru, então ele só pode ser Tolkien.

Mesmo um personagem que tivesse uma pitada de self-insertion no universo de Tolkien, com a metodologia dele, TERIA que ter uma explicação "in universe". Que há algo de Avatar de Autor no Bombadil eu acho ser inegável, mas também, é fato que isso NÃO PODE ser a idéia completa.

Ademais, Faramir ( o único que Tolkien admitiu junto com Beren), Gandalf, Bilbo, Fëanor e o próprio Melkinho têm algo de Avatar de autor em uma medida ou outra, assim como, Tolkien tb admitiu, Beren era, de certa forma, "ele" em outro contexto.

Uma teoria bem interessante, que bate com algumas das minhas idéias a respeito do assunto, e que, creio, influenciou a noção da Entidade da Vida ( "Bateria/Lanterna Branco) que, mais tarde, se atrelou ao Elemental do verde da Terra no DCU, sendo a "Fonte da Vida" no cosmo inteiro está explicada aí no link abaixo.

Tom Bombadil como a materialização "avatar" do próprio Fogo Secreto

Lindariel's Tom Bombadil Theory
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Lindariel's Tom Bombadil Theory
by Lindariel » Fri Feb 23, 2007 11:00 pm

I have wondered from time to time whether Tom Bombadil might not be a physical manifestation of Eru's Secret Fire, based on the following little passage:

Eldest, that's what I am. Mark my words, my friends: Tom was here before the river and the trees; Tom remembers the first raindrop and the first acorn. He made paths before the Big People, and saw the Little People arriving. He was here before the Kings and the graves and the Barrow-wights. When the Elves passed westward, Tom was here already, before the seas were bent. He knew the dark under the stars when it was fearless -- before the Dark Lord came from Outside.


In this passage, Tom goes back in time, until he reveals that he was present in Arda even before Melkor, who was the first of the Valar to arrive. As far as I know, the only "entity" that arrived in Arda before Melkor was the Secret Fire that brought the inert planet to life. From the Ainulindale in The Silmarillion:

. . . but Iluvatar called to them [the Ainur], and said: "I know the desire of your minds that what ye have seen should verily be, not only in your thoughts, but even as ye yourselves are, and yet other. Therefore I say: Ea! Let these things Be! And I will send forth into the Void the Flame Imperishable, and it shall be at the heart of the World, and the World shall Be; and those of you that will may go down into it." And suddenly the Ainur saw afar off a light, as it were a cloud with a living heart of flame; and they knew that this was no vision only, but that Iluvatar had made a new thing: Ea, the World that Is.


Thus, if Tom is a manifestation of the Flame Imperishable, then Tom's imperative is "to be" not "to change" or "to defy," which might help explain the paradox of his undeniable power juxtaposed with his seeming inability to be of help against Sauron. As Goldberry says, "He is." He can influence a living creature's state of being -- i.e., he can influence Old Man Willow to go back to sleep and release his prisoners -- but he cannot change their nature -- i.e., he cannot remove the evil that gnaws at the heart of Old Man Willow. He also has no sway over the weather -- it "is." This is why the Ring has no effect on him, and he can see through its magic (Frodo remains visible to him, even when the Ring is on Frodo's finger), but he cannot negate its evil.

Consider these statements about Bombadil from the Council of Elrond:

"But within those bounds nothing seems to dismay him [Bombadil]," said Erestor. "Would he not take the Ring and keep it there, for ever harmless?"

"No," said Gandalf, "not willingly. He might do so, if all the free folk of the world begged him, but he would not understand the need. And if he were given the Ring, he would soon forget it, or most likely throw it away. Such things have no hold on his mind. He would be a most unsafe guardian; and that alone is answer enough."

"But in any case," said Glorfindel, "to send the Ring to him would only postpone the day of evil. He is far away. We could not now take it back to him, unguessed, unmarked by any spy. And even if we could, soon or late the Lord of the Rings would learn of its hiding place and would bend all his power towards it. Could that power be defied by Bombadil alone? I think not. I think that in the end, if all else is conquered, Bombadil will fall, Last as he was First: and then Night will come."

"I know little of Iarwain save the name," said, Galdor; "but Glorfindel, I think, is right. Power to defy our Enemy is not in him, unless such power is in the earth itself. And yet we see that Sauron can torture and destroy the very hills . . . ."


This theory also suggests an interesting development, should Sauron have recovered the Ring and succeeded in conquering all of Middle-Earth. What would happen to Arda when Sauron and his forces finally overcome the last remaining power in Middle-Earth -- Tom Bombadil? I would postulate that the Dark Lord would suddenly find himself the master of a dead, inert planet. With the destruction of the living incarnation of the Flame Imperishable, the Secret Fire would return to Eru Iluvatar, and Sauron would be left with nothing.

Here's another interesting bit to consider along with my theory, also from the Ainulindale in The Silmarillion:

To Melkor among the Ainur had been given the greatest gifts of power and knowledge, and he had a share in all the gifts of his brethren. He had gone often alone into the void places seeking the Imperishable Flame; for desire grew hot within him to bring into Being things of his own, and it seemed to him that Iluvatar took no thought for the Void, and he was impatient of its emptiness. Yet he found not the Fire, for it is with Iluvatar.


Would it not be the height of ironies if Melkor's greatest lieutenant Sauron could have succeeded in "conquering" Arda, only to have the Flame Imperishable -- his ultimate desire -- return to Iluvatar, leaving him with an empty, dead world -- yet another Void?

**********

This is where my original theory ended. I would like to add one last bit, based on a question from our new friend Per -- If Tom is a manifestation of Eru's Secret Fire, then who is Goldberry?

I think Goldberry is exactly who Tom says she is and who she says she is. She is the River-woman's daughter -- a water elemental who has taken physical shape as Tom's companion.

"Come dear folk . . . . Laugh and be merry! I am Goldberry, daughter of the River."


The hobbits, Frodo in particular, are moved with "a joy that he did not understand. He stood as he had at times stood enchanted by fair elven-voices; but the spell that was now laid upon him was different: less keen and lofty was the delight, but deeper and nearer to mortal heart; marvellous and yet not strange." Frodo KNOWS her because her essence has been around him all his life. She "is" water. Every living creature would experience an immediate intimacy with her.

I certainly do not see her as Yavanna in disguise, the muse/protector of plant and animal life. Goldberry is all about water and its cycle of being -- from raindrop to running stream to melting snow to evaporating water vapor and back to raindrop. She "is" water. Tolkien's descriptions of her always allude to water -- falling, rippling, glinting, shimmering, flashing. Her voice is described "as young and as ancient as Spring, like the song of a glad water flowing down into the night from a bring morning in the hills." The sound of her footsteps "was like a stream falling gently away downhill over cool stones in the quiet of the night."

Later Tom names the autumn rainstorm that settles over his house and land as "Goldberry's washing day and her autumn-cleaning." They hear her singing but do not see her all day -- she "is" the rain. That evening she returns to declare, "The rain has ended and new waters are running downhill, under the stars. Let us now laugh and be glad!"

Later she sings for the hobbits, "songs that began merrily in the hills and fell softly down into silence; and in the silences they saw in their minds pools and waters wider than any they had known, and looking into them they saw the sky below them and the stars like jewels in the depths."

When the hobbits bid her goodbye, she is the epitome of water evaporating in the sun: "There on the hill-brow she stood beckoning to them: her hair was flying loose, and as it caught the sun it shone and shimmered. A light like the glint of water on dewy grass flashed from under her feet as she danced." Isn't that the very picture of dew evanescing in the morning light?

I think Tom's description of his first "meeting" with Goldberry is very interesting:

By that pool long ago I found the River-daughter,
fair young Goldberry sitting in the rushes.
Sweet was her singing then, and her heart was beating!


So very enigmatic! When Tom "found" Goldberry, was he in fact meeting another existing being, or did his appreciation of the beauty of the sound of the water cause her to manifest as a physical entity? To arise from the running water and take form as a creature with a beating heart? I ask this because to me, Goldberry seems to be both a separate entity and a part of Tom. In fact, Goldberry acknowledges Tom as being "the Master of wood, water, and hill." Did Tom so delight in the water that he asked it to take shape, with the result being Goldberry -- "my pretty lady"?

I see Tom and Goldberry as a Yin-Yang relationship; opposites attracting each other; the everlasting creative Fire and the never-ending cycle of Water living in perfect harmony.

Your thoughts?
Lindariel

“Therefore I say: Eä! Let these things Be! And I will send forth into the Void the Flame Imperishable, and it shall be at the heart of the World, and the World shall Be.”

Comparar com a inspiração visual primária aí Genocyber, o animê dos noventa

Que, por sua vez, remete à controversa e polêmica, super não-discutida/referida, fonte original, o Devilman dos anos setenta do Go Nagai.

Aí recriado/rebootado (japoneses tb rebootam em mangá viram?) pelo maravilhoso desenhista de Amon Devilman.The Darkside of Devilman é um reboot total do final original, dando origem a uma sequência completamente alternativa de eventos, feita pelo próprio artista original, Go Nagai, mas com a arte deslumbrante de Yu Kinutani.

O Clímax de Blackest Night foi publicado 3 anos depois desse post do Lindariel e, portanto, Geoff Johns, que é um "tolkieniano" no armário, parece ter usado a tese do Fogo Secreto "encarnado" na Terra como template da ENTidade ( pegaram a piadinha sutil né?).

Até porque, mais tarde, no fim de Brightest Day, a Entidade se funde com o Monstro do Pântano Elemental Campeão do Verde (Pastor de árvores anyone?)

E, sim, de certa forma, o Demônio Judaico-Cristão, o Homem de Verde, o Tom Bombadil, o Deus de Chifres, assim como o Monstro do Pântano e os Ents de Tolkien estão TODOS correlacionados de maneiras intricadas, complicadíssimas e politicamente incorretas de serem desveladas/discutidas na nossa mídia atual Pós-Guerras do Século XX.

 

[Neoghoster Akira]

Isso me lembrou do livro Fons Vitae (Fountain of Life) quando o autor discorre sobre a causa primeira da natureza das substâncias simples.

[h=1]The Fountain of Life[/h][h=2](Fons Vitae)[/h][h=2]by Solomon Ibn Gabirol[/h][h=2]tr. by Harry E. Wedeck[/h][h=4][1962][/h]

http://www.sacred-texts.com/jud/fons/index.htm

Ao usar a idéia da "chama imperecível" Tolkien incluiu um fundamento básico e complexo, igual ao assunto do Gollem que estávamos analisando, uma matéria brutal que parece ganhar vida por meio de um comando artificial. O mundo que começa a alimentar a vida do autômato.

É digno de nota que Bombadil, sendo anterior a natureza que o cerca, cria residência num pré-espaço antigo capaz de coexistir com o mundo ou sustentar todos os seus sub-espaços. E o pré-espaço interpenetra-se com os outros espaços sustentados por ele. (uma árvore)

Um caso para reflexão uma vez que do ponto de vista de Tom, encontrar "Fruta D'ouro" é a aplicação de uma ação que não poderia ser executada ou verossímil com os recursos de um humano comum. Aqui no caso, Tom encontra aquilo que pessoas não podem encontrar e até o verbo "encontrar" é mais rico quando usado por Tom, no mesmo sentido que pessoas conseguem descobrir coisas que cavalos não conseguem. Na boca de Frodo a palavra encontrar pode soar até falsa de tão temporária.

A mente de Goldberry era um quadro circular e perfeito, eterno para satisfazer o plano dos Ainur, disfarçadissímo e muito camuflado de se encontrar como costuma ocorrer com a música perfeita e as formas perfeitas. São tão integradas que se tornam invisíveis.

Em contra-partida a mente de Frodo era uma mente calcada na temporalidade e naquelas condições o hobbit não poderia nem teria recursos de buscar e encontrar aquilo que Tom conseguia encontrar (Frodo poderia encontrar uma Goldberry ou sair das colinas sem Tom?).

Antes de ir até a Colina dos Túmulos Tom oferece a Frodo uma invocação por meio de música ou chamamento que não dependia do que acontecia nas colinas ou nesse mundo (o pré-espaço de Tom) e quando a canção é usada então subitamente Bombadil entra rapidamente na história.

Tão estranha é a natureza que cerca Bombadil que existe troca entre a criação de Eru e a posse que ele declarava daquele pedaço da floresta velha (sua casa). Fazendo com que Tom não estivesse isolado, nem o mundo lhe parecia anti-natural. Pelo contrário, ele parecia vir de um mundo antigo em que apenas as idéias bastavam e que algumas idéias lhe parecessem melhores que outras.

 

[Ilmarinen]

Recomendo a leitura desse texto a respeito da Unidade Semântica do Owen Barfield que tem TUDO a ver com o que Neoghoster comentou acima, a congruência entre linguagem e realidade no domínio de Bombadil como "Mestre". Aí tem outro texto explicando a importância dele pra Tolkien e Lewis.

MAJOR THEMES IN BARFIELD'S WORK
The Importance of the Imagination
The Evolution of Human Consciousness
Language and the Evolution of Consciousness COLERIDGE
AND GOETHE RUDOLF
STEINER WORLDS
APART UNANCESTRAL
VOICE ORPHEUS

Vale conferidas sobre esse tema tb aí: The Flame Imperishable
A blog about Tolkien, St. Thomas, and other purveyors of the Philosophia Perennis.

Outra discussão ótima aí: Bombadil and Goldberry

Esse texto aí conecta diretamente a filosofia dos Participantes Originais do Owen Barfield com a idéia de Tom Bombadil em Tolkien.

Bombadil as Metafantasy

E esse outro texto aí dá um dark twist terrorífico/lovecraftiano no conceito todo.

Oldest and Fatherless: The Terrible Secret of Tom Bombadil

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Oldest and Fatherless: The Terrible Secret of Tom Bombadil

Feb. 20th, 2011 at 2:19 PM

(This is another of my speculative pieces and nothing to do with Star Wars. This one is for an older trilogy.)


Old Tom Bombadil. Possibly the least liked character in The Lord of the Rings. A childish figure so disliked by fans of the book that few object to his absence from all adaptations of the story. And yet, there is another way of looking at Bombadil, based only on what appears in the book itself, that paints a very different picture of this figure of fun.

What do we know about Tom Bombadil? He is fat and jolly and smiles all the time. He is friendly and gregarious and always ready to help travellers in distress.

Except that none of that can possibly be true.

Consider: By his own account (and by Elrond’s surprisingly sketchy knowledge) Bombadil has lived in the Old Forest since before the hobbits came to the Shire. Since before Elrond was born. Since the earliest days of the First Age.

And yet no hobbit has ever heard of him.

The guise in which Bombadil appears to Frodo and his companions is much like a hobbit writ large. He loves food and songs and nonsense rhymes and drink and company. Any hobbit who saw such a person would tell tales of him. Any hobbit who was rescued by Tom would sing songs about him and tell everyone else. Yet Merry – who knows all the history of Buckland and has ventured into the Old Forest many times – has never heard of Tom Bombadil. Frodo and Sam – avid readers of old Bilbo’s lore – have no idea that any such being exists, until he appears to them. All the hobbits of the Shire think of the Old Forest as a place of horror – not as the abode of a jolly fat man who is surprisingly generous with his food.

If Bombadil has indeed lived in the Old Forest all this time – in a house less than twenty miles from Buckland – then it stands to reason that he has never appeared to a single hobbit traveller before, and has certainly never rescued one from death. In the 1400 years since the Shire was settled.

What do we know about Tom Bombadil? He is not what he seems.

Elrond, the greatest lore-master of the Third Age, has never heard of Tom Bombadil. Elrond is only vaguely aware that there was once someone called Iarwain Ben-Adar (“Oldest and Fatherless”) who might be the same as Bombadil. And yet, the main road between Rivendell and the Grey Havens passes not 20 miles from Bombadil’s house, which stands beside the most ancient forest in Middle Earth. Has no elf ever wandered in the Old Forest or encountered Bombadil in all these thousands of years? Apparently not.

Gandalf seems to know more, but he keeps his knowledge to himself. At the Council of Elrond, when people suggest sending the Ring to Bombadil, Gandalf comes up with a surprisingly varied list of reasons why that should not be done. It is not clear that any of the reasons that he gives are the true one.

Now, in his conversation with Frodo, Bombadil implies (but avoids directly stating) that he had heard of their coming from Farmer Maggot and from Gildor’s elves (both of whom Frodo had recently described). But that also makes no sense. Maggot lives west of the Brandywine, remained there when Frodo left, and never even knew that Frodo would be leaving the Shire. And if Elrond knows nothing of Bombadil, how can he be a friend of Gildor’s?

What do we know about Tom Bombadil? He lies.

A question: what is the most dangerous place in Middle Earth? First place goes to the Mines of Moria, home of the Balrog, but what is the second most dangerous place? Tom Bombadil’s country.
By comparison, Mordor is a safe and well-run land, where two lightly-armed hobbits can wander for days without meeting anything more dangerous than themselves. Yet the Old Forest and the Barrow Downs, all part of Tom’s country, are filled with perils that would tax anyone in the Fellowship except perhaps Gandalf.

Now, it is canonical in Tolkein that powerful magical beings imprint their nature on their homes. Lorien under Galadriel is a place of peace and light. Moria, after the Balrog awoke, was a place of terror to which lesser evil creatures were drawn. Likewise, when Sauron lived in Mirkwood, it became blighted with evil and a home to monsters.

And then, there’s Tom Bombadil’s Country.

The hobbits can sense the hatred within all the trees in the Old Forest. Every tree in that place is a malevolent huorn, hating humankind. Every single tree. And the barrows of the ancient kings that lie nearby are defiled and inhabited by Barrow-Wights. Bombadil has the power to control or banish all these creatures, but he does not do so. Instead, he provides a refuge for them against men and other powers. Evil things – and only evil things – flourish in his domain. “Tom Bombadil is the master” Goldberry says. And his subjects are black huorns and barrow wights.

What do we know about Tom Bombadil? He is not the benevolent figure that he pretends to be.

Tom appears to the Ringbearer in a friendly, happy guise, to question and test him and to give him and his companions swords that can kill the servants of another evil power. But his motives are his own.

Consider: it is said more than once that the willows are the most powerful and evil trees in the Forest. Yet, the rhyme that Bombadil teaches the hobbits to use in conjuring up Bombadil himself includes the line, “By the reed and willow.” The willows are a part of Bombadil’s power and a means of calling on him. They draw their strength from the cursed river Withywindle, the centre of all the evil in the Forest.

And the springs of the Withywindle are right next to Tom Bombadil’s house.

And then there is Goldberry, “the river-daughter”. She is presented as Bombadil’s wife, an improbably beautiful and regal being who charms and beguiles the hobbits. It is implied that she is a water spirit, and she sits combing her long, blonde hair after the manner of a mermaid. (And it is worth remembering that mermaids were originally seen as monsters, beautiful above the water, slimy and hideous below, luring sailors to drown and be eaten.) But I suggest the name means that in her true state, Goldberry is nourished by the River – that is, by the proverbially evil Withywindle.

In folklore and legend (as Tolkien would know well) there are many tales of creatures that can take on human form but whose human shape always contains a clue to their true nature. So what might Goldberry be? She is tall and slender - specifically she is “slender as a willow wand”. She wears a green dress, sits amidst bowls of river water and is surrounded by the curtain of her golden hair. I suggest that she is a Willow tree conjured into human form, a malevolent huorn like the Old Man Willow from whom the hobbits have just escaped. If she is not indeed the same tree.

So, if this is true, then why does Bombadil save and help the ringbearer and his companions? Because they can bring about the downfall of Sauron, the current Dark Lord of Middle Earth. When Sauron falls, the other rings will fail and the wizards and elves will leave Middle Earth and the only great power that is left will be Bombadil.

There is a boundary around Bombadil’s country that he cannot or will not pass, something that confines him to a narrow space. And in return, no wizard or elf comes into his country to see who rules it, or to disturb the evil creatures that gather under his protection.

When the hobbits return to the Shire after their journey to Mordor, Gandalf leaves them close to Bree and goes towards Bombadil’s country to have words with him. We do not know what they say. But Gandalf was sent to Middle Earth to contend against Sauron and now he must depart. He has been given no mission to confront Bombadil and he must soon leave Middle Earth to powerless men and hobbits, while Bombadil remains, waiting to fulfill his purpose.

Do I think that Tolkien planned things in this way? Not at all, but I find it an interesting speculation.

To speculate further and more wildly:

The spell that binds Bombadil to his narrow and cursed country was put in place centuries ago by the Valar to protect men and elves. It may last a few decades more, perhaps a few generations of hobbit lives. But when the last elf has gone from the havens and the last spells of rings and wizards unravel, then it will be gone. And Iarwain Ben-Adar, Oldest and Fatherless, who was ruler of the darkness in Middle Earth before Sauron was, before Morgoth set foot there, before the first rising of the sun, will come into his inheritance again. And one dark night the old trees will march westward into the Shire to feed their ancient hatred. And Bombadil will dance down amongst them, clad in his true shape at last, singing his incomprehensible rhymes as the trees mutter their curses and the black and terrible Barrow-Wights dance and gibber around him. And he will be smiling.
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(Anonymous) wrote:
Mar. 22nd, 2011 03:34 pm (UTC)
Wow!
I almost like this more than the Star Wars post. Awesome job! What I would give to hear the conversation between Gandalf and Bombadil...
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(Anonymous) wrote:
Aug. 12th, 2011 03:33 pm (UTC)
This is some brilliant stuff
I am really taken-aback by your posts so far. You have managed to find some really original readings of narratives that are *very* closely studied by some really devoted fans. I am very impressed and hope that the rumors that you have more of these in your head is true.
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oneiriad wrote:
Aug. 12th, 2011 04:34 pm (UTC)
Hey. I just stumbled across this and I have to say, as one of the tiny minority who actually missed Tom Bombadil just a little bit in the movies, this is a deliciously dark interpretation of him. Very nice.
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labyrinthman wrote:
Dec. 6th, 2011 11:11 pm (UTC)
Most intriguing...
A very compelling argument indeed. I'll never read the story the same way again.
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(Anonymous) wrote:
Jul. 9th, 2012 03:51 pm (UTC)
Re: Most intriguing...
Nor will I...

The mermaid reference really got me
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dashadowpanther wrote:
Dec. 7th, 2011 12:09 am (UTC)
Definitely didn't think of it that way before. How about this as additional speculation? In fairy tales, such as the ones you refer to, there is usually some sort of test of the Hero (or Heroes, as Mercedes Lackey would put it) that they must pass in order to get the "reward" (princess, riches, prizes, destruction of the Ring of Evil, what have you) at the end. This test is usually given by some sort of cunning creature (say, a Fox) who tests the Hero's smarts/character and determines if the Hero goes on or not. I wonder if Bombadil serves this purpose?

True, he has to rescue them from themselves (so to speak), and he's not testing Frodo or Sam, but your bit of "questioning them and testing them and to give them weapons etc. etc." made me think of that.

So aside from Bombadil's motivations as becoming the last Dark Lord of Middle Earth, he could also be keeping an eye out for the competition and currying favors at the same time, a "I provided for you, now you have to be my friend" time of alliances. I don't know. I just thought I'd throw it out there.
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fantasyecho wrote:
Dec. 7th, 2011 12:12 am (UTC)
Not only do I buy this, but this further cements Tom Bombadil as my favorite character in all of LOTR.
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vnend wrote:
Dec. 7th, 2011 12:31 am (UTC)
You see evil, I see dangerous
Or, perhaps, 'wild'.

There were a few of us that missed Tom from the movies. I know I missed him quite a bit.

There are a few holes in your reasoning. First, what do hobbits love? Food. And do you suppose that, if asked by their host not to tell where they were so well feed, they would honor that request? I do, and that is part of why I think farmer Maggot wouldn't talk about Tom.

As for Gildor and company, they are headed into the West; there is no harm in exposing himself to them, as they won't be spreading tales of his existence around Middle Earth.

Second, hobbits are home bodies; they seldom venture outside of the Shire. That, plus the Old Forest's dark nature are plenty of excuse for those few that do venture out to avoid the place. Or, like Merry, go in only far enough to say that they had, before they leave again. And, as long as they leave in peace, there is no reason for Tom help them. Between the trees, Goldberry and the other spirits of the place he has all the company he desires.

You write that he clearly hasn't rescued any hobbits, but that is not all that surprising, for the reasons above and this, remember that hobbits are known as sensible people. When they start into the Old Forest, and realize that it isn't a friendly (or even a normal) place, they will turn around and leave. And, even if they didn't and Tom helped them, it isn't clear that he would have had to reveal himself to them to do so, or that they would know it was him if he did (or that he would give his name when he did).

Note that Fangorn has just as dark a reputation as the Old Forest. "Dark" doesn't require it to be evil, it just requires it to be dangerous. And certainly both forests are that, and both with reason. And, just as importantly, both would be a lot more dangerous without the powers that lived there.

And don't forget that, as the hobbits return to the shire, Gandalf rides off to meet and talk with Bombadil, and we see him again many years later, with no word of warning passed to the shire before then.
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dreaminghour wrote:
Dec. 12th, 2011 09:29 pm (UTC)
Re: You see evil, I see dangerous
I agree on your interpretation of 'Dark'. I would further like to add that Dark may just be the chaos of creation, I feel like there is no good or bad in the Old Forest, just danger. Perhaps it's the same 'Dark' that was in the unexplored Jungles--that darkness of lack of knowledge. We imagine the 'Dark Ages' to be a 'bleak' time because know so little, we conjur up evil images, but there was great variation from city to city. It's possible there was a more equal balance of good and bad, we just know nothing of it, and I think that applied to these 'Dark Forests'.
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(Anonymous) wrote:
Dec. 7th, 2011 12:36 am (UTC)
He's not lost in all adaptations, he is one of the main characters in the Lord of the rings Online game. he's one of the main quest people in the beginning of the main storyline.

What i think he secretly is, is a barrow-weight lord or an ancient spirit of the forest capeable of shapeshifting
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(Anonymous) wrote:
Dec. 7th, 2011 01:29 am (UTC)
Oh, I loved Bombadil! However, this is pretty awesome.
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kira_snugz wrote:
Dec. 7th, 2011 02:41 am (UTC)
i do not know you, but this is a masterful peice of writing, and i would like to bake you a cake for being so awesome. but i won't because that would be weird, so have internet cake instead.

that last paragraph sent chills up and down my spine.
amazing.
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(Anonymous) wrote:
Dec. 16th, 2011 06:31 pm (UTC)
The cake is a lie.
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(Anonymous) wrote:
Dec. 7th, 2011 01:13 pm (UTC)
Tom Bombadil
Very interesting - and isn't it odd that so many people feel that Old Tom is innocent and benign? I have always felt that there was a dark and malevolent side to Tom, although my feeling is that he represents an incarnation of The Horned God (Cernunnos, Hernes, The Green Man ...) from Celtic mythology. This is, of course, a field that Tolkien would have been well aware of and easily able to adapt to his own purposes.
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(Anonymous) wrote:
Dec. 7th, 2011 04:09 pm (UTC)
Some basic errors
This is a really cute theory, but I think you made some very basic mistakes.

The reason the hobbits have never met Bombadil is because they only venture into the very fringes of the Old Forest. Likewise, the fact that his home is less than twenty miles from the road to the Grey Havens is irrelevant; if you've ever walked a long distance on foot, you know that twenty miles is nothing to sneeze at in a straight line. Draw a circle with a twenty mile radius from the road and you have over 1200 square miles of territory; it's not surprising that the elves wouldn't have run across him, especially since he doesn't like to be found. This is all splitting hairs though, because it's clear that some elves know of him. They don't know much about him, but they do have a name for him.

The idea that he's lying about how he knew the hobbits were coming is not supported by the story. Tom is at one with the forest; he certainly could have heard the rumor of their passing from the trees. Likewise, it's not hard to imagine that Tom does talk to Farmer Maggott from time to time. Maggott is taciturn and grim; not the type to go tell stories around the Shire about his weird mystical friend in the Old Forest. Also, hobbits are plain, practical folk, likely to dismiss such outlandish tales (see their reactions in the early part of Fellowship to stories of giants).

I really don't see why you think the Old Forest is the second-most dangerous place in Middle-Earth. It's probably not even the tenth most dangerous of the small subset of places that Tolkien actually described. It's an uncanny, unwelcoming place, sure. Is it more dangerous than the Paths of the Dead, which only one living man may walk and survive? Is it more dangerous than Barad-Dur, home of Sauron, or Cirith Ungol, home of the deadliest of Ungoliant's spawn? More dangerous than Mirkwood, where stepping off the paths without the protection of Thranduil's wood-elves is nearly a death sentence? More dangerous than Dagorlad, where will-o-wisps lead travellers astray to drown in the ghost-haunted swamps? Furthermore, the Barrow-Downs may be in some sense part of Tom's "country", but as he and Goldberry make clear, Tom does not control his country. Rather, he is an integrated part of it. It would not be his style to purge the countryside of all evil simply because he could. He seems to be some sort of nature spirit, content to let be what already is, unless urgent need and his responsibilities as a host take precedence.

I think you really got confused when you said that all of the trees in the Old Forest are huorns. I don't think that's true at all; are you confusing the Old Forest with Fangorn? Even in Fangorn we don't have a clear indication that ALL of the trees are huorns. Old Man Willow seems to be a kind of huorn, or something related to them, but nowhere are we given an indication that the trees of the foreboding Old Forest are anything more than trees that resent the presence of intruders. Don't forget that Tolkien had a deep reverence for trees, and considered them living creatures that could feel pain, and that he could commune with.

You theorize that Bombadil was in Middle-Earth "before Morgoth set foot there." This is impossible because Morgoth (then known as Melkor) went to Arda as soon as it was created. You theorize that Bombadil was "ruler of the darkness" before Morgoth -- since Morgoth created the darkness by throwing down the Two Lamps, I don't see how that's possible.

I think a lot of the problem people have with Tom Bombadil is that he is deliberately presented as a mystery. He doesn't fit neatly into our categories of good and evil. It's fun to speculate about who or what he might be, but I don't think even Tolkien knew. And honestly, I think you've strayed very far from what he intended or what is supportable in the text with this guess.
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(Anonymous) wrote:
May. 30th, 2012 05:52 am (UTC)
Re: Some basic errors
I came to the comments to say this, thanks.
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Re: Some basic errors - (Anonymous) - May. 30th, 2012 07:17 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: Some basic errors - (Anonymous) - May. 30th, 2012 09:53 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: Some basic errors - John Herrington - May. 30th, 2012 10:27 pm (UTC) - Expand
Thank you - (Anonymous) - May. 30th, 2012 10:59 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: Some basic errors - (Anonymous) - May. 31st, 2012 04:25 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: Some basic errors - (Anonymous) - Jul. 9th, 2012 04:05 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: Some basic errors - geekosaur - Oct. 1st, 2012 05:09 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: Some basic errors - (Anonymous) - Oct. 11th, 2012 01:43 pm (UTC) - Expand
bagfish wrote:
Dec. 7th, 2011 08:20 pm (UTC)
Came here via a friend's Facebook page and I have to say this is wonderful! I could never work out why Bombadil played such a random and minor part in the trilogy when he was obviously so powerful. You've provided an answer which fits and has also made my skin crawl a bit.

The way you write about the darkness and hatreds of the Old Forest reminds me of Michael Scott Rohan's novel "The Forge in the Forest" where a hapless band of travellers are lured into a forest which is controlled by a Bombadil-like archetype who acts like a man-friend, but instead bends humans to its will and transforms them, or picks them off one-by-one, including using a willow-spirit woman.
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maverick_weirdo wrote:
Dec. 7th, 2011 11:38 pm (UTC)
Hunh
I am of course one of the few Tom Bombadil fans.

I have no problem believing in a friendly, gregarious being, always ready to help travellers in distress. He fits in with characters such as Aslan & Fizban.
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(Anonymous) wrote:
Aug. 10th, 2012 12:07 am (UTC)
Re: Hunh
Let's not forget Nakor
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pingback_bot wrote:
Dec. 8th, 2011 04:45 am (UTC)
Two views on the Bombadil connection...
User kengr referenced to your post from Two views on the Bombadil connection... saying: [...] Next we have Oldest and Fatherless: The Terrible Secret of Tom Bombadil [...]
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kengr wrote:
Dec. 8th, 2011 04:45 am (UTC)
http://www.tiac.net/~cri/2002/bombadil.html

The author is seawasp
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phineas1971 wrote:
Dec. 8th, 2011 04:16 pm (UTC)
He aint evil, he's for the trees!
Yeah maybe if HP Lovecraft wrote the Lord of the Rings! I think you are equating doesn't give a rats buttocks about the rest of the world (i.e. the War of the Rings) with evil. If anything Bombadil is a nature spirit, a being of chaos and randomness. Tolkien was big on bringing in some pre-christian celtic lore into his tale and Bombadil was one of those things. As for the evil of the forest, Treebeard says it best " The trees are on no ones side becasue no one is on the trees side." From their point of view all the men, elves, dwarves, hobbits, and orcs have ever done is chop them down for firewood and building materials. How would you react to a being from a race of creatures who kill your kind and then used them to cook dinner or build a shelter? I think Tolkien, who was a great believer in nature conservation and felt that the rural life of England was being destroyed by industrial interests placed characters like Bombadil and Treebeard into his story to voice his concerns about nature and the way the world was heading (i.e. destruction of the natural world for profit)Although you bring up some interesting ideas, I think you totally miss the mark about Bombadil and his intentions, he ain't evil-- he's for the trees.
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(Anonymous) wrote:
Dec. 8th, 2011 07:14 pm (UTC)
Re: He aint evil, he's for the trees!
I came here to say this.

I have already had that conversation with some friends some time ago and my conclusion is that as some of the elves, Tom Bombadil is keeping himself from the exterior world simply because it is not good enough for him. If we believe his words, he was there from the begining (or very near from it). So I'm pretty sure he is as Gandalf, a Maiar.

Saying he is not evil does not mean he is good, I would think that Tom is grey/neutral. He is a force of nature and his only goal is to protect middle earth or at least his land. He only helps the fellowship because he knows that it is his only chance to block Sauron from getting to his forest.

I was always disappointed about the fact that Tolkien didn't have the chance to expand a bit on the matter... but I guess maybe he didn't want to.
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Re: He aint evil, he's for the trees! - (Anonymous) - Jun. 1st, 2012 03:13 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: He aint evil, he's for the trees! - (Anonymous) - Dec. 22nd, 2011 12:23 pm (UTC) - Expand
(Anonymous) wrote:
Dec. 8th, 2011 05:40 pm (UTC)
> Possibly the least liked character in The Lord of the Rings. A childish figure so disliked by fans of the book...

Not sure how you arrived at that but I would say it's the complete opposite and by *fans* of the book he is much beloved.

> And yet no hobbit has ever heard of him.

Please re-read Fellowship of the Ring, Farmer Maggot knew of Tom Bombadil and had met him on more than one occasion.

Barely 2 paragraphs in and this article is already riddled with inaccuracies. I could go on...
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(Anonymous) wrote:
Dec. 8th, 2011 07:22 pm (UTC)
Oldest and Fatherless: The Terrible Secret of Tom Bombadil
Wow, thanks!
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(Anonymous) wrote:
Dec. 8th, 2011 07:31 pm (UTC)
Very interesting, but recall that all of Middle-Earth isessentially a lesson to the Valar courtesy of Illuvitar. It's an elaborate simulation or extrapolation of the song He had them sing together. How does the Bombadil you describe fit into that framework. If he his not a Valar himself, he is some element of the song.
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(Anonymous) wrote:
Dec. 8th, 2011 09:17 pm (UTC)
unbelievable
if you're going to trash a beloved character, could you at least spell the author and creator of this character correctly? that is all.
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Josh Stokes wrote:
Dec. 9th, 2011 12:02 am (UTC)
This is very well thought out. This version of Tom Bombadil kind of reminds me of the Warlock Lord from the 'Shannarra" series
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firecat wrote:
Dec. 9th, 2011 12:58 am (UTC)
This is great. I wish it could be made into a movie.
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Steven Varner wrote:
Dec. 9th, 2011 01:30 am (UTC)
Adventures of Tom Bombadil
Many of Tolkien's works actually date as far back as his childhood and college days. You can trace their development in the 12 volume "The History of Middle-earth" series (see Wikipedia). Tom Bombadil has actually been the subject of university theses. Take this essay for example:
http://www.cas.unt.edu/~hargrove/bombadil.html
Most academics see Bombadil as the essence of the neutral in LOTR, not evil. Gandalf, Saruman, Sauron, and the other wizards are actually Maiar, lesser divine spirits. The Valar are the great divine spirits that live in the undying West. Bombadil was outside all the good and evil forces found in the Silmarillion... neutral.
In 1962, Tolkien released a collection of poems called "The Adventures of Tom Bombadil." In it there are 3 poems about Tom and Goldberry, with much more background. These poems have been in several Tolkien omnibus editions, and are now in "Tales from the Perilous Realm." You can hear Tolkien himself reading some of them on the charming voice records he made. Here's one on YouTube:

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km_515 wrote:
Feb. 5th, 2012 09:52 am (UTC)
Re: Adventures of Tom Bombadil
I have The Adventures of Tom Bombadil in the 1975 Unwin paperback edition. I left it out of the essay above but did give it some thought.

In the context of "Oldest and Fatherless" it's notable that the poems in Adventures are written in very much the same style as Tom's own rhymes. In his Preface, Tolkien says that those poems appear in the Red Book and "evidently come from Buckland", and as such are evidence that the Bucklanders knew of Bombadil. However, that runs contrary to the established fact that Merry (a well-read Brandybuck) had never heard of Bombadil.

I continue my speculation by suggesting that those poems were actually made by Bombadil himself for his own purposes and were recited to the hobbits during their stay in his house. From there they found their way, unatributed, into the Red Book.
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(Anonymous) wrote:
Dec. 9th, 2011 06:16 am (UTC)
I'm so glad to see someone else made this mental link. I loved really old fairy tales as a kid and all of the symbolism with Tom Bombadil freaked me out the first time I picked up the Lord of the Rings books. I kept waiting for all the symbolism to build up to something and it just didn't.
Tom Bombadil never showed back up as a significant character, and no reason was given for why he would delay the ring bearer for so long from such an urgent errand. It's not like they stop there for the night, have a good meal and leave. I mean, they talk about watching the leaves change while at Bombadil's home.
He kept them from their quest for a while.

As for him being a nature spirit that's simply "for the trees..." That's exactly the problem. There are a lot of old stories about nature spirits. Most ate people.
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(Anonymous) wrote:
May. 30th, 2012 06:16 pm (UTC)
Tom kept them for a very short amount of time, just days. Of the top of my head I only recall that they left Bag-End on the 22nd of September and where at Rivendell by the end of October. I would wager they where there no longer then three full days excluding the evening they arrived and the morning they left. As for the leaves changing colour, depending on where you are and what trees you have end of September/beginning of October is the right time for the trees to change colour, and it takes surprisingly very little time for trees of the same species in the same area to change colour (I have visited home for a weekend while I was at university and when I arrived Friday all the poplars were green and by the time I left Sunday they were all yellow).
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(no subject) - piggy_toy - Jul. 24th, 2012 02:00 pm (UTC) - Expand
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PROFILE

Esse texto no spoiler acima bate direitinho com um análogo trevoso da Marvel explicado por mim aí

Chthon, o Necromante, Senhor do Caos

O responsável pelos poderes místicos da Feiticeira Escarlate e, no fim das contas, pela criação dos vampiros, lobisomens e demais monstros do Universo Marvel. Deixou como memento em nossa dimensão, depois de banido pelo primeiro dessa lista , o seu sobrinho Demogorge, filho da irmãzinha protetora de primatas, Gaia, um livro "indestrutível e escrito com letras de fogo" que tem vontade própria, comanda quem tenta
controlá-lo numa corrupção irresistível( epa!!) ( lembrando um combo do Anel do Poder de Tolkien com o Necronomicon do Lovecraft) e contém os feitiços mais poderosos e profanos de todo o Marvel Universe (incusive a fórmula do encantamento que pode destruir TODOS os vampiros da Terra, utilizada (mal e porcamente com uma explicação "científica" rastaquera) no último filme de Blade), o famigerado Tomo Negro.

Uma das experienciazinhas de Chthon na dimensão pra onde foi exilado resultou na criação dos N'garai, inimigos dos X-Men, os aliens cover da Marvel, que também são"Deuses Negros" por sua própria conta.

Chthon também tem a peculiaridade de ser uma versão hiperdark do Tom Bombadil e seu poder de nomeação, controle e maestria sobre a ordem natural;

A long time ago, when the world was so new nothing had a name, something woke up. It learned all about what was and what would be... but most of all it learned what couldn't be, what shouldn't be. And it gave those things names, names it wrote on indestructible pages, because a namer has mastery of the named.

BRRRRRrrrr, confesso que, dos análogos cthulhianos acima, Chthon é que , modernamente, continua a me meter mais medo e que não foi, apesar de algumas tentativas, meio que diminuído pelos caprichos dos escritores da Marvel.

Segundo a opinião de alguns é, de longe, o Demônio-Mor do Universo Marvel

Já essa teoria aí já é pro Ragnaros Tom Bombadil como Dark Matter

 

[Atyarwen]

Ninguém nunca perguntou ao Christopher Tolkien, o que seria Tom Bombadil?

 

[Lindoriel]

O que mais me surpreendeu foi isso de Tom ser Aulë e Fruta D'Ouro ser Yavanna!!!

Já pensou, dois Valar no meio da Floresta Velha??

 

[Ilmarinen]

Ninguém nunca perguntou ao Christopher Tolkien, o que seria Tom Bombadil?

Até onde eu sei, pro Christopher não. Já pro próprio Tolkien sim, mais de uma vez; ele desconversava em todas as ocasiões, dizendo que mesmo uma ambientação ou sistema fechado de mitologia sempre tem alguns "enigmas" intencionais. Então, devemos presumir que o CT só sabe, no máximo, o mesmo que nós.

Essa citação abaixo é de uma carta não compilada no livro do Humphrey Carpenter e do CT, é de 1961 se eu não me engano:

"According to (ii) [internal origins], I have left him where he is and not
attempted to clarify his position, first of all because I like him and he has at
any rate a satisfying geographical home in the lands of the Lord of the Rings;
but more seriously because in any world or universe devised imaginatively (or
imposed simply upon the actual world), there is always some element that does
not fit and opens as it were a window into some other system. You will notice
that though the Ring is a serious matter and has great power for all the
inhabitants of the world of the Lord of the Rings, even the best and most holy,
it does not touch Tom Bombadil at all. So Bombadil is 'fatherless', he has no
historical origin in the world described in the Lord of the Rings."

Em outra posterior ele já fala que há enigmas in a closed system, dando a entender que ele JÁ TINHA, a essas alturas, bolado uma explicação in universe pro personagem que ainda não existia direito em 1961 mas que ele PREFERIA assim mesmo não dar pros leitores. Aí embaixo, informação extraída do volume JRR Tolkien Companion and Reader's Guide de Wayne Hammond e Christina Scull.

In an unpublished draft letter in 1968 Tolkien wrote: 'I do not know his [Tom Bombadil's] origin though I might make guesses. He is best left as he is, a mystery. There are many mysteries in any closed/organized system of history/mythology' (private collection; see further, note for p. 131).

 

[Tar-Mairon]

O que mais me surpreendeu foi isso de Tom ser Aulë e Fruta D'Ouro ser Yavanna!!!

Já pensou, dois Valar no meio da Floresta Velha??

.

De todos os palpites sobre o que, ou quem, Tom Bombadil é, este é, de longe, o mais "viajado", afinal natureba como é, como o bom e velho Tom poderia ser o vala da "ciência e tecnologia"?

.

 

[Ilmarinen]

De todos os palpites sobre o que, ou quem, Tom Bombadil é, este é, de longe, o mais "viajado", afinal natureba como é, como o bom e velho Tom poderia ser o vala da "ciência e tecnologia"?

Nevah!!!

A teoria do Hargrove tem mais furos do que a crosta da lua ou queijo suíço. Mais tarde nessa semana eu colo aqui meu reply/refutação da plausibilidade da teoria do Hargrove feita pra mailing list da Valinor anos atrás.

 

[Lindoriel]

Sem contar que, como Aulë, ele ia ter que gostar de mexer em forjas e tal...

Aí imagino se ele fosse Aulë msm, se não ia chegar e dizer aos demais: "Esse é o Anel que meu ex servo criou? Mas que safado, por que não dei uma coça nesse infeliz quando tive a oportunidade?"

 

[Ilmarinen]

Nevah!!!

A teoria do Hargrove tem mais furos do que a crosta da lua ou queijo suíço. Mais tarde nessa semana eu colo aqui meu reply/refutação da plausibilidade da teoria do Hargrove feita pra mailing list da Valinor anos atrás.

O que eu penso sobre a teoria do Hargrove, de que Tom Bombadil era Aulë e, Goldberry, Yavanna, resposta dada na mailing list da Valinor 12 anos atrás:

Re: [CALAQUENDI] En: Orcs and souls

Raphael, quando eu disse que Aulë era sisudo eu não
usei o termo no mesmo sentido e modo que era aplicável
aos anões.

O que eu quis dizer é que Aulë, em todas as suas
aparições, é mostrado como um indivíduo sóbrio,
prático e metódico. Veja a conversa dele com Yavanna
no capítulo 2 da Quenta Silmarillion.Qdo ela
praticamente avisa de que os anões correrão o risco
de despertar um poder oculto, às expensas de sua
própria segurança, se desmatarem em excesso ele se
limita a replicar: "mesmo assim eles terão
necessidade de madeira".

E mais relevante ainda: Qdo Yavanna e os demais Valar
requisitaram a Fëanor a entrega dos Silmarils ele foi
o único dos que estavam presentes que conseguiu
compreender o dilema de Fëanor ( ele havia enfrentado
a mesma provação, com Ilúvatar, qdo criara os anões).

Dentre todos era somente ele que conseguiria entender
a importância de ver materializado um ato de
subcriação de tamanha magnitude. A atração que ele,
Fëanor e os Anões têm pelas coisas que criam não é
pelo seu valor material mas mais precisamente porque
vêem nelas o reflexo do dom de criar possuído por
Ilúvatar. O mal surge quando o subcriador se recusa a
fazer com que essa criação seja parte do todo do plano
de Ilúvatar, dando uma importância maior ao trabalho
das suas próprias mãos, e conferindo primazia à
subcriação.

Mas voltando a Aulë, eu discordo de Hargrove porque de
todos os Valar, Aulë seria o menos propenso a
simplesmente ESQUECER o Anel do Poder confiado à sua
guarda ( ele que foi o ÚNICO a entender Fëanor) pelo
fato de que ele sabia o valor do mesmo como produto de
um ato de subcriação e como o uso corrompido de seus
próprios ensinamentos. ( Sauron havia sido um dos seus
maiar e Celebrimbor era o neto de Fëanor e um dos
Noldor, seus aprendizes, o que, inclusive, indica que
ele teria um motivo pessoal para NÃO esquecer do
Anel).

E, embora eu concorde com você que Aulë não era cioso
com seus ensinamentos ou avarento e que ele
provavelmente sorriria ao compartilhar as coisas
materiais ou não eu, pessoalmente, não vejo Aulë
cantando, e enCANTANDO árvores ( ele não tinha uma
propensão especial por coisas que crescem, quer como
arte, quer como ciência , essa era a província de
Yavanna que foi quem disse a Aulë que por ele ter
criado os anões sem o seu conhecimento ( o que mostra
a extensão do pensamento de AuLë) eles não teriam
muito afeto pelas coisas que ela criava.

Se Bombadil e Golderry fossem na verdade Valar eu
penso que eles seriam com muito mais probabilidade
Oromë ( chamado Aldaron, protetor de árvores) e sua
esposa Vána ( a irmã mais nova de Yavanna.) Ou até
mesmo Tulkas ( que se ria até mesmo durante combates,
embora ,é claro, Bombadil seria uma versão
"amadurecida" ) e sua valië Nessa ( irmã de Oromë).

Embora nenhum desses casais se ajuste bem no papel
estaria muito mais de acordo com a caracterização
deles do que o que ocorre com a hipótese Aulë-Yavanna.

Na verdade, pra falar a verdade, eu acho que se
Bombadil fosse Aulë ou qualquer um dos Valar eu acho
que Tolkien teria feito pelo menos uma sugestão disso,
ainda que em suas cartas, mas ele não fez isso. E
embora eu tenha curiosidade eu não vejo porque fazer
das tripas coração pra achar um possível candidato já
previamente aparecido na obra do Tolkien qdo seria
muito mais fácil visualizar Bombadil como um ser novo
e diferente de tudo que Tolkien já havia focalizado) (
o que aliás parece ter sido a sua intenção). Além do
mais eu entendo a posição do Tolkien nessa atitude de
manter algumas "vistas inexplicadas" . Eu acho legal
que ele conserve alguns segredinhos mesmo que
,pessoalmente, eu tenha as minhas próprias idéias
sobre o assunto ( complicadas demais para explicar
agora) mas idéias que não obliterem o "senso de
mistério" do Bombadil.

Eu não fiquei "bravo" com a teoria do Hargrove só acho
que o autor forçou mesmo a barra para explicar uma
coisa que o Tolkien NÃO QUERIA EXPLICAR, pelo menos
não dessa maneira tão direta e desapaixonante que o
Hargrove fez.

Quanto ao problema da expressão círculos do mundo eu
concordo com você no tocante de que Círculos do Mundo
com maíúscula se referia aos limites de Eä ( essa é
provavelmente a grafia do Contos Inacabados , eu não
tenho certeza porque o meu livro está emprestado) de
maneira que os espíritos do homens realmente abandonam
EÄ ( eu ainda não estava seguro disso qdo escrevi meu
último e-mail).

Já "círculos do mundo" ( usado nos apêndices do
Senhor dos Anéis) é uma expressão sinônima do termo
the world that was bent , o mundo que fora feito
redondo ( expressão que o substitui no Silmarillion
provavelmente para evitar confusões) e, por
conseguinte, só é aplicável a Arda depois da Mudança
do mundo.

O "Círculos do Mundo" já era usado antes do
afundamento de Númenor ( como nas palavras de Húrin e
Morgoth) o que garante que os termos se referem à
coisas diferentes. Agora em passagens como a das
palavras finais de Aragorn para Arwen, nos apêndice,s
a expressão "círculos do mundo" está se referindo a
ambos os significados da expressão ou pelo menos ora o
um , ora a outro. ( santa ambiguidade, Batman ;-P)

Qto à Lúthien e Melian isso é exatamente o que eu quis
dizer com bolar uma explicação que retenha o senso de
mistério além do que faz Lúthien parecer algo tão
singular e especial como o Tolkien sempre pretendeu
que ela fosse.

Discussão sobre liches ? ( hummmmmm, pode mandar.)

Abraços

Namarië

Ilmarin

 

[Neoghoster Akira]

Saiu uma notícia interessante esses dias que se relaciona ao nosso assunto daqui. Mais especificamente ao livro de Adventures of Tom Bombadil.


Segundo a notícia encontraram poemas novos de Tolkien que seriam inseridos no livro do Tom e um deles se chama Shadow Man. O trecho que eles deram de “petisco” novamente toca naquilo que o Tolkien pareceu introduzir no mundo do Bombadil que são as tais sombras (Shadow).


Talvez tenha mais informação sobre o que Tolkien estava pensando quando quis usar Shadow nos textos do Tom...

...

The first poem, The Shadow Man, is an early version of a poem that Tolkien went on to publish in his 1962 collection The Adventures of Tom Bombadil. It tells of “a man who dwelt alone/ beneath the moon in shadow”, who “sat as long as lasting stone,/and yet he had no shadow”. When “a lady clad in grey” arrives, he wakes, and “clasped her fast, both flesh and bone;/and they were clad in shadow”.

...


Fonte: http://www.theguardian.com/books/2016/feb/16/unseen-jrr-tolkien-poems-found-in-school-magazine Via: Veja

 

[Ilmarinen]

Dica Neoghoster....

a correlação que a história do Shadow Bride tem com a história e a natureza de Tom Bombadil-Goldberry reside no fato de que é uma versão da história de Kore-Perséfone e Hades ( como bem analisou o Kocher ainda na década de setenta), onde Hades sequestra a Moça do Mundo Luminoso pro Submundo. Onde eles se casam hierogamicamente.

Constraste e compare isso com a forma com que Bombadil aborda Goldberry e a arrebata da "Mãe do Rio".

Dá uma lida nos textos nos links nas minhas postagens anteriores.






January 12, 1964

From 'Shadow-Bride'
By J. R. R. Tolkien

There was a man who dwelt
alone,
as day and night went past
he sat as still as carven stone,
and yet no shadow cast.
The white owls perched upon his
head
beneath the winter moon;
they wiped their beaks and
thought him dead
under the stars of June.
There came a lady clad in grey
in the twilight shining:
one moment she would stand and
stay,
her hair with flowers en-
twining.
He woke, as had he sprung of
stone,
and broke the spell that
bound him;
he clasped her fast, both flesh
and bone,
and wrapped her shadow
round him.

There never more she walks her ways
by sun or moon or star ;
she dwells below where neither days
nor any nights there are.
But once a year when caverns yawn
and hidden things awake,
they dance together then till dawn
and a single shadow make.

J. R. R. Tolkien in "The Adventures of Tom Bombadil and Other Verses From The Red Book."
Return to the Books Home Page

13. A NOIVA-SOMBRA

Era um homem que sozinho vivia

enquanto dia após noite fugia;

sentado e quedo como pedra lavrada,

sem qualquer sombra projetada.

Corujas brancas para ele subiam

sob as estrelas que surgiam;

limparam os bicos, julgando-o indisposto

sob a Lua de Agosto.

Então uma dama toda de cinzento,

surgiu no crepúsculo pardacento:

por um momento ficou olhando,

flores no cabelo entrançando.

Ele acordou como da pedra saído

e quebrou o encanto que o tinha prendido.



Tomou-a nos braços, a carne e o osso,

e a sombra enrolou no seu pescoço.

E então não mais ela ali apareceu

sob o Sol ou a Lua do céu;

vive lá embaixo na caverna triste,

onde nem a noite nem o dia existe.

Mas uma vez por ano, quando as cavernas bocejam

e as coisas surgem para que as vejam,

eles dançam juntos até a alvorada,

como uma só sombra alada

Reassista A Lenda de Ridley Scott.

Ou com a trilha sonora instrumental clássica do Jerry Goldsmith ( prefiro)

Mais informações ligadas de perto a esse tema no livro da Leslie Jones ( a mesma que analisou as correlações entre Bombadil e Taliesin) no capítulo sobre o "Casal Cósmico Céltico", o Cosmic Couple .



Checa isso aí também

 

[Neoghoster Akira]

Valeu pela pesquisa, vai me ajudar bastante com esse fio da meada!

 

[Ilmarinen]

Entó tó mais esse

E pense nas correlações entre o poema do Shadow Man ou Shadow Bride, o casal Bombadil e Goldberry que se sobrepõem com Beren e Lúthien, uma vez que, simbólica e literalmente, Lúthien desce no Submundo, várias e várias vezes, por causa de Beren.

Esse tipo de repercussão tonal entre histórias diferentes derivadas das mesmas fontes míticas teológicas e antropológicas, no Tolkien, é lugar comum

The lyrics for "My True Love's Eyes" or "Lily's Song" or "Princess Lily's Chant" were written by John Betts on the music by Jerry Goldsmith for the movie ... ''LEGEND'' (Staring Tom Cruise) You can find the songs from the movie, on the soundtrack. Amazon and others are selling it... http://www.amazon.com/Legend-Original... for the album or by pieces... Maybe this Youtube video is a mix of more than one track... It is often happening that some songs are quite alike in a movie.

(Lyrics)...
Living river, turn light to diamonds
When I look in my true love's eyes.

Come white flowers, weave us a carpet
Spreading oak make a shade where we lie.
Leaves and branches, whisper our love song,
When I look in my true love's eyes.
Young as any spring, his eyes almost sing to me.

Living river, turn light to diamonds
When I look in my true love's eyes.
Like a child feels watching a rainbow.
Like a bird feels the first time it flies.
I feel magic stirring within me,
When I look in my true love's eyes.
Young as any spring, his eyes almost sing.

In the bumps and the hollows,
The sunlight and shadows.
He kissed her as those bluebells played.
As his lips met her breath,
He went sweetly to death
At the roots of the bluebells is where he's laid.

Come dance sparrow, sing me good morning.
Rise up sun like the arch of the sky.

Living river, turn light to diamonds
When I look in my true love's eyes.
Young as any spring, his eyes almost sing.

Living river, turn light to diamonds
When I look in my true love's eyes.

Come white flowers, weave us a carpet
Spreading oak make a shade where we lie.
Leaves and branches, whisper our love song,
When I look in my true love's eyes.
Young as any spring, his eyes almost sing to me.

 

[Neoghoster Akira]

Tá aí um filme que ainda não tinha visto. O paralelo entre casais realmente é um dos nervos do trabalho do Tolkien. Especialmente nesse caso de Beren, à medida em que aumenta a chance e risco da morte (a sombra da morte) também aumenta a chance dele de se encontrar com ela (o inimigo e a morte parecem uni-los). Aliás, creio que a mãe de Lúthien agia também por meio de sombras e ilusões em suas fronteiras e limites, a não ser para aquele cujo destino seria disputar o mesmo ponto de vista apreciado pelos seres mágicos e élficos. Ao escolhido as sombras não enganariam.

 

[Neoghoster Akira]

Procurando sobre contexto e sigmificado das roupas e cores das roupas de Tom estava lendo o Lotrplaza e tem uma lista das teorias sobre Tom em um tópico:
Tom B: Peeling the Onion (Collegium 1)
http://www.lotrplaza.com/showthread.php?83

Por: halfir
’Do not laugh! But once upon a time (my crest has long since fallen) I had in mind to make a body of more or less connected analysis on the subject of Tom Bombadil, which I could dedicate to all Plaza enthusiasts. With that aim in mind I started The Great Work, with aid of some 30 +supportive loremasters. With that great aim in mind I spent almost a year searching on and offsite for anything connected to Tom, and my colleagues did likewise. An editorial committee was set up, a comprehensive topic list agreed, and projects assigned. But RL, loss of supporting project managers, and the sheer weight of coordinating such a large project and number of people finally brought my work to a halt. I had no need to leave scope for other minds, for they were already busy at work and have continued to offer their views in a multitude of threadsfrom the inception of The Great Work, until today’ {With apologies to J R R Tolkien and Letter # 131}

However, the material acquired during that process still remains, and since then, even more views on Tom have seen the light of day- each one usually more absurd than the last.

So, rather than let all that research go to waste I have decided to use it to peel the layers of the onion that is Tom B and his fair Lady Goldberry ,and provide a resource base for others who might wish to take up the torch where I laid it down.

This will be a very lengthy process and I will start it by simply listing some of the many views as to who or what Tom is. It is not intended to be comprehensive. Some of them might surprise you!


The Many Headed Hydra – Interpretations of Tom

Tom is:
Adam (and Goldberry is Eve; both are in their unfallen state)
Aulë (And Goldberry is Yavanna)
A being thrown-up at the beginning of time
The Brown Man
The Chieftain of Birds
One of the oldest inhabitants of King Bonehig’s kingdom
The Christian concept of stewardship
Christ (almost)
A daimonic being who lived before history
A Dutch Doll
The spirit of Ea itself
Earth’s Gaia
Eru
Eru’s representative in ME
An Enigma
The Fisher King
The Green Man
The Jungian concept of the ’Original Man’
The last Moorish King of Granada
A Maia ’gone native’
A Maia of Yavanna
The last Maia to enter Ea
A Merlin type figure
The spirit of ME
A nature spirit
A nature sprite
The embodiment of nature’s moral neutrality or ambiguity
Embodies Nature’s pattern
The Spirit of Nature
A spirit of the vanishing Oxford and Berkshire Countryside
A pre-existing spiritual being who became embodied as the spirit of nature
The One
Oromë
Pan
Puck
The Reader
The opposite of Shelob but amoral
A spontaneous generation from the land
JRR Tolkien
Tulkas
Ulmo
Uncle Tim’s nephew in The Root of the Boot in The Adventures of Tom Bombadil
Based on Vainamoinen from the Kalevala
Wayland Young

The list goes on!


N.B. I am indebted to Charles Noad’s compilation of the various interpretations of Tom in Leaves from the Tree for much of this list.
Last edited by Troelsfo; 19/Jul/2015 at 02:28 PM. Reason: Troelsfo: Adding colouring etc. as halfir originally used

 

[Ilmarinen]

Compilação salvada por mim das primeiras páginas do tópico do Halfir (que Deus o tenha) no Plaza ( RIP tb, até seu retorno)

https://www.4shared.com/rar/3-6OgEVqfi/Tom_B.html

E Alfonse Mucha, artista papa da Art Nouveau (vide influência dele em Tolkien no excelente ensaio da Tyellas), ilustrando um retrato que pode, talvez, ter sido a inspiração pra Goldberry?

http://www.ansereg.com/ArtsandCraftsandTolkien.pdf

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J.R.R. Tolkien: Revolución Industrial, Arts & Crafts y Art Nouveau en la Tierra Media
enero 16, 2017Por Helia de San Nicolás Juárez, arquitecta por la Universidad Europea de MadridArquitectura y Cine, arte
La capacidad didáctica del cine es de sobra reconocida, sobre todo cuando aborda aspectos que describen la realidad de una determinada época o, en el caso que nos ocupa, de las corrientes arquitectónicas de un determinado periodo histórico.

La obra literaria del británico -nacido en Sudáfrica- J.R.R. Tolkien (1892-1973) resulta extraordinariamente didáctica en lo que se refiere a la arquitectura del siglo XIX. Los textos fantásticos de este original escritor –entre los que se encuentra El Hobbit y El Señor de los Anillos– han sido llevados al cine con gran éxito de taquilla en los últimos años por el cineasta Peter Jackson que, junto a su equipo artístico y técnico, resolvió eficazmente la ardua tarea de trasladar los textos de Tolkien al celuloide, recreando los espacios y construcciones descritas en las páginas de sus manuscritos. Estos escenarios, hasta ahora tan solo imaginados por el lector partir de los textos de Tolkien, resultan esenciales para el desarrollo de las tramas argumentales de la saga, ya que no solo localizan de forma precisa un lugar específico dentro de la Tierra Media sino que, a la vez, aportan información sobre la vida de los personajes que allí habitan.




Fotograma de Las Dos Torres que muestra a Saruman desde la torre de Isengard supervisando la fabricación en serie de orcos modificados Uruk-Hai VS imagen del interior de una fábrica textil durante la 1ª Revolución Industrial (mediados del s.XVII –Inglaterra- hasta 1870)

Por un lado es posible situar la fortaleza de Isengard, donde bajo la supervisión de Saruman, sus obreros –orcos- fabrican un ejército de iguales modificados (uruk-hai) en un interminable proceso casi mecanizado, recordando a los propios de las fábricas textiles y metalúrgicas del siglo XIX en Inglaterra, donde los empleados eran explotados en largas jornadas laborales extenuantes por un mísero salario –-tal vez ni eso en el caso de estos orcos-. Las tareas mecánicas y repetitivas fueron favorecidas por la división de tareas en los procesos industriales que, junto con los avances tecnológicos, energéticos y organizativos, permitieron la producción en masa de objetos de diversa índole. Estos productos industriales serían posteriormente expuestos en ferias expositivas internacionales como la de Londres de 1853 o la de París de 1889. El valor artesanal de los productos, por tanto, quedaba en detrimento de la capacidad productiva y su consecuente fabricación en masa de productos.




Fotograma de El Señor de los Anillos que muestra a Bilbo y Frodo Bolsón en el interior de su casa en la Comarca Vs interiores y detalle de los vidrios pintados por William Morris en la Red House (1859-1860) proyectada por Philip Webb

Por otro lado, Hobbinton se encuentra en el corazón de la Comarca, una tierra poblada por habitantes que aprecian notablemente el valor por el trabajo artesanal y el tiempo pausado. El uso de materiales de origen natural como la madera, prima en la mayoría de las construcciones cuyos cálidos interiores alternan las estructuras y muebles de madera robustos y tallados, con baldosas cerámicas y multitud de tejidos con motivos vegetales y florales de alfombras y manteles y que recuerdan a los propios del Arts & Crafts inglés. Así, la casa de Bilbo y Frodo Bolsón bien podría entenderse –salvando las distancias y algunos detalles como sus esquinas y espacios redondeados- como la trasposición a la gran pantalla de la Red House (1859-1860) de Philip Webb. Por seguro, tanto su propietario –William Morris– como sus amigos prerrafaelitas habrían aprobado la vivienda de los Bolsón y quizá, incluso, se habrían animado a decorarla con sus tejidos y pinturas, como ya hicieran con la Red House.




Fotogramas de El Señor de los Anillos que muestran el interior de una vivienda élfica Vs interior y detalles decorativos de la Casa Tassel (1893) proyectada por Víctor Horta en Bruselas

Por último, es necesario mencionar Rivendel, la tierra de los elfos, un onírico lugar donde las formas onduladas inspiradas en la naturaleza son las generadoras de los espacios y sus estructuras y que recuerdan a las propias del Art Nouveau. De hecho, sería posible imaginar algunos interiores modernistas como los de la Casa Tassel (1893) de Víctor Horta en el corazón de Rivendel, al igual que fantasear con que algunos gráciles elfos pudieran habitar en el corazón de la famosa casa de Bruselas donde la naturaleza parece haber tomado el control en el diseño de la vivienda llevando sus formas orgánicas y fluidas a sus estructuras y dibujándolas en sus techos, suelos y paredes. Rivendel, por tanto, podría entenderse como la materialización por excelencia del Art Nouveau en la Tierra Media, una capital donde las líneas onduladas inspiradas en la naturaleza no solo contagian las construcciones sino que incluso generan los símbolos y accesorios que lucen sus habitantes.

En conclusión, la visualización de las películas El Señor de los Anillos y El Hobbit supone una aproximación fiable a algunas de las corrientes arquitectónicas y procesos más importantes que se sucedieron en el siglo XIX, permitiendo al espectador disfrutar de ellas en un mismo marco temporal y territorial: la fantástica Tierra Media que J.R.R. Tolkien nos brindó.





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Por Helia de San Nicolás Juárez, arquitecta por la Universidad Europea de Madrid

Helia de San Nicolás Juárez es arquitecta por la Universidad Europea de Madrid (2005) y doctora en arquitectura por la ETSAM (Universidad Politécnica de Madrid, 2016) donde defendió su tesis doctoral basada en la relación entre la arquitectura y el cine y, particularmente, centrada en la producción cinematográfica del francés Jacques Tati. Ha sido profesora de Historia del Arte & la Arquitectura y de Teoría e Historia de la Arquitectura en la Universidad Católica de Murcia (UCAM), así como de Historia del Diseño Interior en la Escuela Superior Internacional de Murcia. Su especialización en el área de composición arquitectónica se completa con un Máster en Gestión Cultural (Universidad de Alcalá, 2012). Además, ha dirigido diversos proyectos de índole cultural. En la actualidad ejerce como arquitecta, docente y diseñadora de objetos.
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Blog de Fundación Arquia | Blog de arquitectura y arquitectos | J.R.R. TOLKIEN: REVOLUCIÓN INDUSTRIAL, ARTS & CRAFTS Y ART NOUVEAU EN LA TIERRA MEDIA
enero 20, 2017 9:48 am
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[Neoghoster Akira]

Estava mesmo atrás de informações sobre art noveau, cinema e referências de Tolkien. Fui procurar vitrais coloridos de portas e janelas com temas feéricos do século 19 e começo do século 20 então nessa semana resolvi pegar um filme do tempo do cinema mudo, Cabiria de 1914. O filme é do tempo em que Tolkien estava na guerra. O próximo deve ser Intolerance de 1916 (meio que estava passando da hora de ver essas coisas). É uma experiência estética interessante ver os filmes tendo em mente todas aquelas motivações gloriosas do período (influencia do nacionalismo de todas as cores e lados). Como é mudo escuto outra coisa meio morta (synth pop wave dos anos 80s).

Visualmente esses trabalhos aparecem como sonhos mais do que fotografias com legendas. A pessoa entra numa espécie de estado mental interior. O engraçado é que apesar de a imagem estimular introspecção o conteúdo trata justamente do mundo ruidoso. Enfim, os movimentos artísticos são importantes para se entender este lado de Tolkien.

O entretenimento dos tempos de Tolkien:

 

[Ilmarinen]

The Bombadil-Dark Santa connection...

The following paper was posted to the usenet newsgroup, rec.arts.sf.written, by a person posting under the name "Sea Wasp". The circumstances whereby he acquired a copy of the paper were not related. The matter is under investigation by They Who Shall Not Be Named.

(the following is a transcript of a paper presented by Eukonidor at the Fifth Age Conference on Arisia to the delegation from Middle-Earth)



THE SYMMETRY of CORRUPTION:
An Examination of the History of
the One Ring subsequent to the
"War of the Ring", and the
Implications Thereof for the
Future of Civilization
As is well known, at the conclusion of the Third Age of Middle-Earth, the One Ruling Ring fell into the Cracks of Doom and was destroyed, obliterating the works directly tied to the One and undoing the Dark Lord Sauron entirely.

Unfortunately, that which is "well-known" can often be incorrect. Subsequent events of a disquieting nature demonstrate all too conclusively that in point of fact not only was the One not destroyed, but it was also taken up by a being more than capable of utilizing it for its own purposes.

That being, known to most of the residents of Middle-Earth as "Tom Bombadil", encountered the Ruling Ring quite early in its journey towards Mount Doom. The incidents involving Bombadil and the Ringbearer are often discounted; in fact, at least one dramatic production of the story neglects this entirely. And to a mind incapable of visualizing the Cosmic All in detail, it is true that this incident does not in fact appear to have much bearing on the history of the Ring.

Yet to discount this apparently chance encounter is to discount the significance of Bombadil himself. What, than, is Tom Bombadil? Some have claimed he is Maia; he certainly cannot be Vala, for the Valar have all been well known and accounted for. Yet, in his statements and those of others, there are clues -- ones which point to an entirely different origin, and which speak volumes of both his power and potential vulnerabilities. He is the "Eldest". "Tom was here before the Dark Lord came from Outside". The "Dark Lord from Outside" is, of course, Morgoth, once called Melkor, mightiest of the Valar. Yet the Valar were the first permitted entry to Arda. How, then, could Bombadil be there before them?

Even a very moderate intellect, given this clue and a few other such as Bombadil's ties to the natural world, can envision the obvious solution. Bombadil is the very spirit of Arda itself; he is the living soul of the world of Middle-Earth. (Thus the statements that he could not resist Sauron successfully, unless the strength to do so lies within the Earth itself)

Such a being cannot be discounted by any who walk the surface of Middle-Earth. This casts grave doubts, then, upon any assumption of coincidence or happenstance leading to the meeting of the Ringbearer and Tom Bombadil.

Much is made of the apparently failure of the Ring to affect Bombadil. Yet there is a much simpler explanation, one which unfortunately leads to darker conclusions. The Ring was created by a being of spirit, and its powers work equally on beings of the flesh and ones of pure mind -- witness the temptation it worked upon such as Gandalf of the Maiar, who was fortunately strong enough to resist it, and Boromir of Gondor, who was not. It is then questionable, at the least, to contend that Bombadil was immune.

Visibility, however, is an aspect of the physical. The Ring's invisibility worked by shifting the being more fully into the shadowy realm in which corrupted spirits in Middle-Earth are found, an alternative or neighboring dimension in the more mechanistic terms of Civilization. Bombadil, however, is the entirety of the world's spirit. He cannot be shifted away, or rather if you shift one part, another takes its place. The Ring worked perfectly upon Bombadil; he simply existed simultaneously on all levels, so that there was no way for the Ring to actually make him invisible, unless its power would have permitted it to make the entire world invisible -- something beyond even the power of Morgoth, let alone his sycophant's creation.

But if Bombadil is the spirit of the world, it follows that things which affect the world affect Bombadil. Morgoth's delvings at Angband and Thangorodrim, the wars, the "bending away" of huge parts of the world, the despoiling of Mordor, and the actions of Sauruman, a thousand other things, all would rebound upon he who represents the spirit of Middle-Earth. And just as a peach can seem perfectly fine to the casual glance, yet be suffering from rot beneath, so too can this damage leave Bombadil apparently his normal, carefree, cheerful self yet with dangerous and unnoted changes beneath. On these changes the Ring could work. In a sense, Bombadil was NEVER far from the One Ring; his spirit pervades the entirety of the world. Though the consciousness that was Bombadil was, for the most part, distant, nonetheless the echoes of the Ring's influence could still touch upon him.

By the time Bombadil met the Ringbearer, the damage had begun. Internally Bombadil was filled with conflict, yet never having had anyone like himself to speak with, he could neither understand nor even verbalize the existence of his conflict. It is clear that he bent the Ringbearer's path to himself; this is a trivial exercise of power that even the Elves could manage. Eventually, he gained momentary possession of the Ring -- and it was then that his simple, direct cleverness tricked all of the Wise. With the same skills of a sideshow magician, Bombadil palmed the One and returned to Frodo Ringbearer an identical-seeming Ring -- a lesser Ring, which unlike the Nine, Seven, and Three was unadorned, yet which by the Ruling Ring's enchantment was still bound to it.

What followed would, of course, have been impossible had any lesser being taken the Ring. Perhaps one of the great Maia, or a Valar, could have done what Bombadil did, but even that is of doubt. But Bombadil is born of the World, and in the world his power is great beyond easy reckoning. While the Ringbearer journeyed, he kept much of the power of the One channeled to the lesser Ring that Frodo now carried. Had anyone performed the same test Gandalf had in Bag End -- casting it into the fire -- the substitution would have been unmasked. But Bombadil knew that it was exceedingly unlikely anyone would, unless they were given reason to suspect a substitution, and he made sure that there were no such grounds for suspicion. At the ultimate moment, he directed not only the full power of the One, but some of his own might through the Earth that is his to command, and the works of Sauron that depended upon the One were unmade. The Nazgul appeared to die, and Sauron himself became a great shadow and was blown away. To all appearances, the One was destroyed, Sauron undone, and the rest is known.

But what, we ask, were the motives of Bombadil?

Following the changes through the subsequent ages, and looking at the damage done by the Enemy and his Servant in the prior ones, a pattern emerges. Technology can be an aid or a hindrance; the mining of metals and forging of them can be done destructively or not. The wars, and destructiveness of technology, in Middle-Earth have nearly all stemmed, not merely from pride, but from covetousness -- the desire for material things, and the mistaking of this desire for a need, and the satisfaction of the desire for happiness.

Bombadil is a being like a caring parent -- in fact, many cultures view the Earth-spirit as female, not male. It wants its "children" -- those who inhabit the world -- to be, for the most part, happy. Bombadil is the essence of growth and life, but the essence of Morgoth's works, and those of his protege', is and was corruption, barrenness, sterility, and a turning inward in search of unfulfillable desires.

The small corruptions done to Bombadil's spirit over the Ages accumulated, and were worked upon by the Ring's peculiar tendency to find one's weaknesses and play upon them. Bombadil then took the Ring for himself and found a mad logic to the contradictions that were plaguing him. If his "children" found joy in these things, then joy there must be, even if it seemed painful to him. So he would embrace the pain and make it a joy.

The rise in material and commercial culture, and its strident and ever-quickening pace -- something seen more than once in the history since the great War of the Ring -- reflects the efforts of Bombadil to reconcile his spiritual knowledge with the corruption that has infected him.

Bombadil has always chosen to have a locus -- a place in which he is content to do his own work, far from the easy access of others. With his newfound purpose, however, the backwoods and rivers and natural vistas no longer held a fascination; he needed a place of isolation where he could have vast workshops to produce these "things" that people coveted, that seemed in his now-bent mind to be the focus of joy. Therefore he travelled far to the North, to lands lost to mortal access by the "bending" of the world, but not lost to him since they remained yet a part of what he was. At the ruins left by Morgoth, in the uttermost North, he settled. And to him in tatters came the Nine, and he drew others to his cause -- elves and orcs together in unholy accord, the one drawn by Bombadil's call, the other by the power of the Ring. And in the reopened delvings he began to create. The Nine he reshaped into more fitting seemings. Dark Lord he might be becoming, yet his essential personality was not entirely gone, and perhaps could not be ever entirely destroyed; the full power of Middle-Earth may well lie beyond even the Ring to reshape in its entirety.

Bombadil became a subtly corruptive spirit -- apparently a bearer of gifts (reflecting, of course, the original guise with which Sauron had tricked others into the snare of Ring-Forging, Annatar), but his gifts carried with them the corruption of desire. He encouraged the gift-giving, taking pleasure in the giving, yet the very power he used was to slowly emphasize the need for ever MORE gift-receiving on the part of the mortals involved. In early days he was seen in a number of guises, but as the effects of Bombadil's Corruption began to be seen more and more throughout the world, his image was refined -- partly by himself, and, in accordance with the way it had begun, partly by the very organizations of mortals that his corruption had helped to define. The Nine were now Reindeer, or so they would appear to most, and Bombadil, still jolly and cheerful, was Saint Nicholas, or Santa Claus. The origin of the Christmas celebrations of course were tied to the old celebrations of nature which Bombadil had now forsaken.

But what of Sauron? The One still, in fact, existed. Thus Sauron could no more have been destroyed than the Nine.

This much is true; yet with a Power so great in utter and complete control of the One, Sauron had been reduced to a state lower than any he had previously attained. Barely able to regain power to manifest at all, he became a sour and weak spirit, assuming a generally humanoid form. He had of course lost all ability to take a pleasing form after the first War of the Ring, but now, reduced as he was, he could not even assume one with majesty or terror, but one of simple ugliness, to inspire distaste or pity. So weakened was he that he could not even remember, clearly, who and what he was.

Instinctively he sought the places least affected by the power of the Dark Lord Bombadil, for if he were to recover at all, he had to spend many years indeed unmolested and unremarked. By coincidence or destiny, the place he chose was the Shire, or rather what the Shire had become in the intervening years.

The Hobbits, always insular, over the years became more and more inward focused. Their borders became harder and harder to find or define as time wore on, and not only they personally, but their entire land, seemed to remain remarkably free of the taint of Bombadil's Gifts. Why this was is clear to any adequate mind, but is not the subject of this particular discourse.

An Age passed, and the Hobbits changed, as did the world around them, but in a different way. Still unaffected by the Power of Corruption, at least for the most part, they exchanged gifts at Christmas but did so in the spirit that was outwardly intended, succumbing little, if at all, to the corruption of the One combined with the First, and what little corruption seemed to take hold was only in the frenetic enthusiasm of their celebrations. Due to the changes in the world, the lingering Elven magic gifted to them through Sam Gamgee, and certain other obvious influences, they became a diverse people in appearance, yet still completely isolated; in fact, many if not all of them had ceased to think of there being any outside world, and indeed to reach the outside world from the place that had been the Shire was now a task no ordinary mortal could manage.

Sauron, not even a shadow of his former self, of course detested the joy and generosity of these people; in part, because he confused his own memories with those he ripped from others, he adopted an almost Gollum-like attitude, associating all "presents" with the one "precious present" that he'd given himself, and despising the ceremony of giftgiving. He was, however, also fearful and wary, knowing somehow that these harmless-looking creatures had been responsible for the condition he now found himself in, and for uncounted years he lived there, skulking in the mountains that now cut off the once-Shire from the rest of the world, a bogeyman to the little people below (originally calling him, in mangled Elven, Gaur ringe-oron ("the werewolf of the Cold Mountain"). Inevitably this was shortened to "The Gaurringe" and eventually to "The Grinch".

Eventually, towards the end of the 5th age (the latter part of the 20th century in Earthly terms), his bitterness overcame his fear, at least to the extent that he determined to make everyone in the lands below as miserable as he himself was. On Christmas, he raised up what little power remained to him, and stole every gift that had been prepared for the celebration, and their food as well, thinking that not only would they be deprived of the joy of gifts, but of food as well; perhaps they would starve, or turn upon one another in their misery.

However, the Hobbits, or what they had become, had long since recognized their own joy in community and being together; thus their traditional celebratory rituals -- singing in the new year at the end of the old, which was how they viewed this particular celebration -- proceeded unchanged. It wasn't that they didn't notice the things missing, but that they possessed an absolute certainty that they could work out such problems as long as they, themselves, were unharmed.

What happened next could not have happened if things had gone at all differently; had Sauron been stronger, Bombadil weaker, the Hobbits and their descendants less resistant to corruption, the tale would have a different ending. But Sauron was weak, yet still a conscious mind, and all minds desire some kind of communication with others. And for two ages he had had no such communication. The song reached him where he stood, ready to cast all the accumulated treasures into the void on the other side of the mountains. And it touched a part of him which had been thought dead ages agone, that which had once borne the name Aulendil, and awakened in him the possibility of friendship. For in the past Ages was he too well known, both to himself and others, and trust would have been long, long in coming, and never fully would it be given. Now was he almost unknown, and that which he had been not even a rumor to these people. And with that came hope, and with hope there re-awakened within him the knowlege of the Light of Aman. The Light rekindled, he rose, and for the first time in uncounted years one of the Maiar stood upon the soil of that which had been Middle-Earth. Then did he return unto the people that which he had taken, and took up his abode among them. With this clarity of strength and purpose had come recognition of the changes, and he now resolved to discover what had happened to the world... but that, too, would take much time, as would becoming firm and accustomed to being one with the world itself.

Thus the Symmetry of Corruption; the corruption of the land that Morgoth and Sauron promoted led to the downfall of the Dark Lord, and the corruption promoted by the new Dark Lord led to the rise of one who had been utterly fallen. There is hope in even the darkest of events, and a cautionary word is needed even in the brightest of times. Remember these words, and think upon them, Wise of Middle-Earth, for the next Age is upon thee, and how you deal with the Powers that now reawaken will determine the shape of all things to come.

This page was last updated July 14, 2002.
Copyright © 2002 by Sea Wasp

Could Santa Claus resist the One ring?

So... is nobody going to post the scan of Santa delivering to Darkseid?

I guess I will...

 

[Neoghoster Akira]

Terminei de ler o texto da conexão.

O autor traça um paralelo com sugestões em que Bombadil assume um papel assemelhado a Gaia e traz alguns elementos que conectam também com outra obra interessante que é o The Father Christmas Letters.

Não sei se ele chegou a ensaiar algo sobre, mas deu vontade de tentar encaixar a chama que Eru enviou para o mundo e comparar com as funções do "mãe natureza".