Especulação Spoilers, leaks e especulações

[istari200]

E a meu ver é até bom atingir o público geral, pois daria muita audiência e com certeza lucros para empresa e consequentemente teríamos muito mais temporadas, até mesmo mais filmes relacionadas as obras de Tolkien. Acredito que esse seria o propósito da amazon.

 

[Ilmarinen]

O problema é se a Série descambar para o "Trope" de "Vou retratar uma Mulher forte/empoderada, mas para isso ela tem que ser uma Xena para se mostrar fodona". Tomara que não fique só nisso. Que eles retratem uma Galadriel que use de diálogo, intelectualidade e sabedoria para se opor ao Inimigo da Terra-Média.

Acho que eles vão usar o inventário de notas sobre a Galadriel pra botá-la no trope do King Incognito, delineando um tipo de personagem que se desdobra em ambos os tipos de papel: o diplomático-reinante-administrador-comandante e o de guerreiro-espião ao mesmo tempo. Talvez mais A Princesa e o Cavaleiro do que Xena. Algo na linha do desenho anime do Rei Arthur dos anos oitenta.

King Incognito - TV Tropes

The heroes and/or villains run into a seemingly unimportant person, usually a beggar or common criminal. Later we discover this person is actually someone of great fame and importance (a king/powerful wizard, etc), and that they had disguised …

tvtropes.org

Eu presumo que a fase "aventureira" dela é coisa dos episódios da primeira temporada antes de Annatar chegar a Eregion. Depois, nas fases finais da série, ela retomaria o papel de guerreira na linha de frente depois que a guerra já estivesse sendo travada e a diplomacia já tivesse descido o ralo do toilet. E, pessoalmente, eu não consigo enxergar Galadriel fora da Guerra da Última Aliança de jeito nenhum*.

Meio que na idéia de que a compressão do tempo joga todos as fases da Galadriel dentro do mesmo período para que eles possam escolher a dedo. Como opção narrativa dentro dos parâmetros do cânon é bizarro. Mas o "cozidão" de todas as idéias do Tolkien sobre a Galadriel pode render alguns momentos divertidos. Galadriel's greatest hits. Acho que nem casada com Celeborn ela vai ser série. Então eu já desapeguei de esperar a versão do cânon na série pq o take da Amazon parece ser na linha de considerar que o que Tolkien revelou sobre o passado dela não é estritamente cânonico já que, fora as linhas gerais, nunca foi publicado como livro não-póstumo.

Mais ou menos o que o Michael Martinez comentou nesse trecho aqui:

Careful readers will keep in mind that there is no true “Middle-earth canon”. Picking and choosing between the various texts to support particular points of view leads to what Tolkien scholar Carl Hostetter has labeled “conflation and circularity”**. In other words, it is a logical fallacy to use an absence of denial on Tolkien’s part to argue that something must have been “true”.

É verdade que um tipo de caracterização não precisa, necessariamente, acontecer às expensas de outro. Talvez tivesse sido mais fácil se eles tivessem criado uma nova personagem, pupila da Galadriel, para desempenhar a função da guerreira-espiã-investigadora e mantido a "canônica" na versão esclarecida e tardia. Eles teriam total liberdade pra "lacrar" o quanto quisessem sem violar percepção de cânon.

*

John Watson

, I have read all of Tolkien books
Answered Nov 15


Unclear.

The other answers say Galadriel was in Dol Amroth/The Bay of Belfalas but that's not ‘canon'.

In the Concerning Galadriel and Celeborn (late 1950s writing) Galadriel wears Nenya in the year 1600 of the Second Age and heavily uses it. But as a side effect she becomes so sick and gets great longing for the Sea that she eventually goes to live near the Sea for thousands of years. However she doesn't leave Middle-earth to be healed in Valinor. She says it's my duty to fight Sauron. This very strongly suggests that Galadriel had a part in the Last Alliance. Just because her dwelling place was in Belfals it doesn't mean she didn't go anywhere else. Cirdan's dwellling place was in Grey Havens, far away from Mordor, and yet he had a part in the Last Alliance.

As I said above this dwelling of Galadriel in Belfals was a discarded idea by default. Christopher Tolkien points out that Galadriel couldn't make use of her ring until Sauron lost the Master Ring. Firstly, Galadriel herself advised people to not use their rings, and secondly Galadriel would've became enslaved by Sauron if she had used her ring in Second Age. Therefore if Galadriel didn't use Nenya then she didn't become so desperate for the Sea in Second Age and therefore she had no motivation to go to the Bay of Belfalas. At any rate, the idea of Galadriel living at Belfalas does not appear in any of later writings.

In later writings it seems Galadriel is constantly travelling around after the Fall of Eregion.

According to a writing from 1969: "after the Fall of Eregion... They [Galadriel and Celeborn] had passed through Moria with a considerable following of Noldorin Exiles and dwelt for many years in Lórien. Thither they returned twice before the Last Alliance and the end of the Second Age; and in the Third Age, when the Shadow of Sauron’s recovery arose, they dwelt there again for a long time." - Nature of Middle-earth

As is clear above, Galadriel led a host of Noldor in the Fall of Eregion and was not present in Lorien until the year 1697 when Eregion fell and she retreated to Lorien. As opposed to the discarded writing, Galadriel returns to Lorien twice in SA. And as is clear above she was not present in Lorien during the War of the Last Alliance. She had returned to Lorien twice before the war and had never returned again until Sauron took over South Greenwood around the year 1000 of the Third Age.

Galadriel must've been in Mordor or near Mordor in the war. Whether she partook as a warrior or a healer and supply provider is up for the reader's take.

Why Galadriel must have had a role in this war? Because...

In later versions Tolkien invented the ban of Galadriel from Valinor. She had rejected the pardon of the Valar "for all who had fought against [Morgoth]" and remained under the Ban. Therefore she couldn't leave Middle-earth and her fate depended on the result of this war.

It is stated Galadriel was very very wise. If she was so wise then why wouldn't she have a part in this war? Even Oropher the unwisest and the most stubborn elf lord of Second Age answered the summons of Gil-Galad to participate in this war.

Galadriel was "the pupil of Aulë and Yavanna in Valinor" and the pupil of Melian in Middle-earth. These three angelic beings taught her great stuff. Aulë had smithcraft power and Yavanna and Melian had powers related to nature and healing. Sounds weird if she didn't make use of her skills for this crucial war.

"his wife Galadriel was the greatest of Elven women [of Second Age]". Other women partook as healers and supply providers. Sounds absurd if the greatest Elf woman didn't do anything.

"These two kinsfolk (Fëanor and Galadriel), the greatest of the Eldar in Valinor, were unfriends for ever." "Who together with the greatest of all the Eldar, Luthien Tinuviel, daughter of Elu Thingol, are the chief matter of the legends and histories of the Elves." Galadriel was basically the greatest Elf of Second Age. It doesn't make sense if we assume she didn't do anything in this war.

In Elessar draft Galadriel points out that she's so upset about his brother's death. The very brother who was "of all her kin the nearest to her heart". The very brother that was killed by Sauron. Sounds weird if Galadriel didn't want to have a part in avenging her brother. Oh and also her bestfriend in Second Age was also killed by Sauron. It is stated Celebrimbor was "a great friend of Galadriel".

Galadriel was present in the Fall of Eregion in later versions and she must've fought valiantly in this desperate battle. For it is stated “[Éowyn] was also not really a soldier or ‘amazon’, but like many brave women was capable of great military gallantry at a crisis.” but Galadriel was both Amazon and brave, "[Galadriel] was then of Amazon disposition and bound up her hair as a crown when taking part in athletic feats” “Galadriel, the fairest lady of the house of Finwe, and the most valiant”

The Fall of Eregion was utterly hopeless battle. And yet Galadriel didn't flee from it. Why would she flee from a much more hopeful war like the Last Alliance? Isn't she like the most brave woman?

In the First Kinslaying Galadriel “fought fiercely against Feanor in defence of her mother's kin”. Really, bunch of Orcs and Humans were nothing compared to Feanor and his followers.

In Nature of Middle-earth it is stated Sauron thought of Galadriel as his chief enemy and adversary. Sounds weird if the chief opponent of Sauron didn't do anything in this war.

In Shibboleth of Feanor it is stated one of her motivations for coming to Middle-earth was to aid her mother's kin (Sindar and Nandor Elves). Her other motivations were adventuring and ruling a realm of her own. Again, this suggests she must have fought against Sauron one way or another in order to fulfill her goals.

In UT there's an entire passage about Galadriel being greatly motivated to defeat the Shadow in the East.

Just because Tolkien didn't write where was Galadriel during the Last Alliance it doesn't mean she wasn't in the Last Alliance. We have enough evidence about the motivations and wisdom and greatness of Galadriel that supports the idea that she must've had a part in the greatest war of Second Age.

Tolkien invented the character of Thranduil in 1930s but it took Tolkien 3 decades to explicitly write about Thranduil's part in the Last Alliance. Tolkien's stories of Second Age are heavily unfinished. No wonder we don't have clear information about Galadriel's part in the Last Alliance (Galadriel, a late invented and a very later developed character).

**http://www.parmakenta.com/2011/02/

 

[Ilmarinen]

Lucy Lawless...

No Brasil não estão promovendo nada da série mas até encontro entre as intérpretes de Xena e Gabriele o programa já bancou:

Lucy Lawless Reveals the Parts of My Life Is Murder That They Stole from Columbo

It's been 20 years since she starred in Xena: Warrior Princess, but fans worldwide still remember Lucy Lawless in the titular role. Nowadays, Lawless favors

parade.com

 

[Ilmarinen]

A polêmica do vídeo com entrevista editada pela IGN versus o que o expert realmente declarou na versão integral no comentário sobre as barbas das anãs. ( 01. 18. 20)

E o ensaio do T.A. Shippey sobre o que uma adaptação para outra mídia demanda ( ele foi consultor pros filmes do Peter Jackson):

Tolkien Book to Jackson Script: The Medium and the Message :: News & Events :: Swarthmore College

In this talk, Tom Shippey, the world’s foremost Tolkien scholar, charts the creative reshaping of Tolkien’s The Lord of the Rings into Peter Jackson’s award-winning trilogy of films. Professor Shippey was the literary consultant to Jackson and the actors as they worked on the films.

www.swarthmore.edu

Tolkien and Jackson: Book to Script

This paper considers the constraints on Jackson as movie director, and the problems of changing medium, with regard to Tolkien's Lord of the Rings.

www.academia.edu

 

[Grimnir]

Hoje as 18:15 teremos novidades sobre as forças trevosas da série:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1502005160037470214

 

[Elring]

Hoje as 18:15 teremos novidades sobre as forças trevosas da série:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1502005160037470214

 

[Ilmarinen]

Se Sauron for mesmo o "Tio Ben Stark" então não será o cara do meteoro.

Benjen Stark

Benjen Stark was a First Ranger of the Night's Watch. Benjen Stark is the youngest child and third son of Lord Rickard Stark, the head of House Stark. The North is one of the constituent regions of the Seven Kingdoms and House Stark is one of the Great Houses of the realm. House Stark rule the...

gameofthrones.fandom.com

 

[Grimnir]

Achei bem confusa essa discussão do FoF e tive o seguinte entendimento: Adar (Joseph Mawle, aka "Benjen Stark") será apresentado na primeira temporada como um personagem que preenche o vazio de liderança deixado pelo desaparecimento de Sauron após a Guerra da Ira. Isso não significa que ele é O Senhor do Escuro, mas um sim um pretenso autodeclarado Senhor do Escuro. Pela leitura do FoF, em algum momento Adar será confrontado por Sauron, que reivindicará seu lugar como o verdadeiro Senhor do Escuro.

É interessante notar, como comentei em outro post, que parece razoável supor a derrota de Morgoth no fim da Primeira Era não promoveu automaticamente Sauron a coisa alguma. Claro, Sauron era seu primeiro-tenente, mas isso não significa nada quando você está do lado derrotado da guerra. Morgoth foi derrotado e aprisionado, seu exército foi destruído e Sauron fugiu. Apenas mil anos depois é que Sauron ressurge como liderança na Terra-média.

Enfim, resumindo: Adar não será Sauron (na minha interpretação), de modo que O Estranho ainda poderá ser o Senhor do Escuro disfarçado.

 

[Mireille]

Não consegui acompanhar todas as postagens aqui, e não sei se já foi mencionado, mas o ator do Estranho já foi confirmado pelo perfil oficial da série:


Perfil do IMDb: https://www.imdb.com/name/nm1621849/

Spoiler: Foto do indivíduo

 

[Béla van Tesma]

Pelo menos ele é estranho, mesmo.

 

[Ilmarinen]

Elficamente estranho, eu diria

 

[Ilmarinen]

Não consegui acompanhar todas as postagens aqui, e não sei se já foi mencionado, mas o ator do Estranho já foi confirmado pelo perfil oficial da série:
Ver anexo 92690

Perfil do IMDb: https://www.imdb.com/name/nm1621849/

Spoiler: Foto do indivíduo

Ver anexo 92691

Tinha colocado a fotinha dele aqui:

Primeiro teaser trailer da série

Armenelos? Espero que seja! Meneltarma lá no fundo e uma estátua que serviria de inspiração para os Argonath no futuro.

www.valinor.com.br

 

[Grimnir]

1) Galadriel visits Finrod's tomb episode 1 where he was laid to rest after his death and that's where she gets the dagger.

2) Some elves are sailing West to the Undying Lands in the first 2 episodes of The Rings of Power.

3) There was a Balrog present at the battle Finrod is fighting at, but it wasn't present in the trailer.

 

[Ilmarinen]

Desconfio que essa morte do Finrod vai estar mais parecida é com a morte do Fingon. Nada de masmorras em Tol-in- Gaurhoth, nada de luta com lobisomen mas, sim, torresmo de Elfo Balrogado e purê de High King

 

[Elring]

Até onde sei, quem saiu no mano a mano com Balrog foi só Fëanor e Glorfindel. E não tinha nenhum com Sauron na Ilha dos Lobisomens, além de Drauglin e cia.

 

[Ilmarinen]

Até onde sei, quem saiu no mano a mano com Balrog foi só Fëanor e Glorfindel. E não tinha nenhum com Sauron na Ilha dos Lobisomens, além de Drauglin e cia.

Fingon morreu enfrentando dois balrogs na Nirnaeth Arnoediad. Um deles, inclusive, era Gothmog, Senhor dos Balrogs.

Ele estava duelando com Gothmog quando o outro balrog o emboscou com o chicote de chamas pela retaguarda, abrindo caminho pro ataque de Gothmog com um machado.

But now in the western battle Fingon and Turgon were assailed by a tide of
foes thrice greater than all the force that was left to them. Gothmog, Lord of
Balrogs, high-captain of Angband, was come; and he drove a dark wedge
between the Elvenhosts, surrounding King Fingon, and thrusting Turgon and
Húrin aside towards the Fen of Serech. Then he turned upon Fingon. That was a
grim meeting. At last Fingon stood alone with his guard dead about him; and he
fought with Gothmog, until another Balrog came behind and cast a thong of fire
about him. Then Gothmog hewed him with his black axe, and a white flame
sprang up from the helm of Fingon as it was cloven. Thus fell the High King of
the Noldor; and they beat him into the dust with their maces, and his banner,
blue and silver, they trod into the mire of his blood.

Claro que, depois, em Gondolin, tb tem o episódio de Ecthelion da Fonte com Gothmog. Ecthelion com seu capecete com espigão ornado com ponta de diamante, o Checkov's gun* que Tolkien fez questão de deixar preparado no final da versão tardia de A Queda de Gondolin ( rebatizada de Tuor e da sua Chegada a Gondolin )
de Contos Inacabados.

*Gothmog foi morto pela ponta do capacete no Livro dos Contos Perdidos na versão original da história.

Ecthelion and Gothmog by Cloister on DeviantArt

www.deviantart.com

 

[Elring]

Isso que eu tô com o Silmarillion na cabeceira da cama e acabei pulando esse trecho.

Não duvido nada de que o Balrog da série seja o famoso Gothmog com outro nome.

Vish... tenho pena de quem vier a conhecer Tolkien pela série. Vai bugar a mente com força. Já conseguiram complicar mais a linha de tempo.

 

[Ilmarinen]

Será que o Balrog bonequinho da série tb terá o "asas removíveis" ?

Vai que, pra serem realmente "ousados", eles resolvem fazer o Balrog SEM ASAS pra vender mais brinquedo e fazer mais polêmica.

https://www.reddit.com/r/LOTR_on_Prime/comments/fkpooe

 

[Tiago Cunha]

Desconfio que essa morte do Finrod vai estar mais parecida é com a morte do Fingon. Nada de masmorras em Tol-in- Gaurhoth, nada de luta com lobisomen mas, sim, torresmo de Elfo Balrogado e purê de High King

Esse gif é de algum jogo?

 

[Ilmarinen]

Sim, é, não sei exatamente de qual pq não jogo