Discussão [1ª temporada] Episódio 8 (com spoilers)

[Grimnir]

Achei bem razoável a crítica da Boscov. Talvez tenha falhado como uma crítica técnica, mas eu não tenho capacidade alguma de criticar nesse sentido também. Como uma crítica de telespectador, eu concordo com tudo o que ela e Sadovski falaram: diálogos fracos (sendo, na maioria das vezes, meio cringe na tentativa de ser filosóficos), personagens pouco apaixonáveis (exceto os anões, imo), uma necessidade constante de recorrermos ao lores para darmos sentido às coisas (a série precisa ser autossuficiente nas suas explicações, ou seja, "se não está na série, não existe"), mau uso de momentos dramáticos (morte de Sadoc e destruição causada pela erupção de Orodruin).

Eu concordo que talvez tenham pesada muito a mão nas críticas e não tenha sobrado, injustamente, nenhum elogio a série. Afinal de contas, eu não acho que tenha sido um lixo completo. De toda forma, acho que os pontos criticados por ela extremamente pertinentes.

 

[Arner the Brave]

Acorrentado pela sombra...

Mas sempre os Noldor temiam mormente a traição daqueles de sua própria gente que tinham sido servos em Angband; pois Morgoth usava alguns desses para seus propósitos malignos e, fingindo dar-lhes liberdade, mandava-os para longe, mas suas vontades estavam acorrentadas à dele, e saíam apenas para retornar a ele de novo. Portanto, se qualquer dos cativos escapava de verdade e retornava a seu próprio povo, tinha pouca acolhida e vagava sozinho, proscrito e desesperado. - O Silmarillion

Então não estou louco, a corrente é mesmo simbólica e proposital. Bacana. Valeu!

 

[Mago Véio]

Há tempo ainda... Escute o Ragnaros, Bezos!

Enquanto a série n explora Harad e Rhûn, jogar Age of Empires IV pode ser uma boa.

The Delhi Sultanate in Age IV​

The Delhi Sultanate civilization is at the forefront of technological innovation. They have a strong focus on research and defense, with an edge in technological advancement over other civilizations.

In Age of Empires IV, the Delhi Sultanate civilization is based on the powerful empire formed from the invasion of the Ghurid Dynasty (originating in Persia) into northern India spanning the years 879-1526 CE. For 300 years, this empire shaped an independent Indo-Islamic region, adopting technology present in India.

Advancing through the Ages has you experience this civilization’s rich history. With the first Age reflecting the Turkish and Iranian Ghurid Sultanate, playing the Farsi/Persian-speaking Delhi Sultanate civilization brings you through the Mamluk and Khalji Dynasty, Tughlaq Dynasty, and the Sayyid and Lodi Dynasty—getting a taste for the Delhi Sultanate’s vibrant cultures and defiant strength.

The Ottomans​

The Ottoman civilization benefits strongly from their military prowess, their Imperial Council system, as well as their unique Military School system.

In Age of Empires IV, the civilization of the Ottomans spans the years from the pre-imperial Ottoman Empire period in the 11th century CE to the mid-16th century CE. Originating in Anatolia, the Ottomans rose to become one of the longest lasting empires in history with its effective and stable government, supported by a famously well-trained and regimented military.

The Malians​

The Malians focus on strong economic play, making gold and spending gold, and prefer strategic hit-and-run tactics with their unique infantry units instead of prolonged military battles.

In Age of Empires IV, the civilization of the Malians spans the years from the pre-imperial Mali Empire period in the 11th century CE to the early 16th century CE. Uniting from a collection of independent kingdoms, the Malian civilization coalesced into one of the most influential West African empires in history, as well as one of the richest trading nations of all-time.

Playing The Mongols​

The Mongols are an agile civilization, excelling in hit-and-run military strategies and capable of expanding armies rapidly.

The Mongols civilization in Age of Empires IV are extremely capable in hit-and-run strategies, thanks to their exceptional mobility and nomadic nature originating in the Great Steppes of Central Asia. You witness the Mongols through the Ages, spanning from 1000-1500 CE, as a disciplined civilization, recognized for changing history in connecting the East to the West.

In Age IV, the Mongols are known for their unique structure and are at their most powerful when playing to their strengths in tight groups. They speak Mongolian—the most widely spoken of the Mongolic languages.

Playing The Abbasid Dynasty​

The Abbasid Dynasty is an adaptive civilization due to their ability to research unique upgrades at the House of Wisdom. These upgrades impact and alter core game elements and mechanics, providing a unique way to build your empire.

In Age of Empires IV, the Abbasid Dynasty civilization spans the years 750-1517 CE and is based on the Abbasid Caliphate and the Mamluk Sultanate. The empire was born in modern-day Iraq, but after the Mongols destroyed its capital of Baghdad in 1258, the seat of power moved to Cairo.

You will experience the “Golden Age of Islam” playing the Abbasid Dynasty – an Arabic-speaking civilization. This period saw flourishing technological innovations as the medieval world raced towards the modern era. The Abbasid Dynasty ruled the spiritual heart of the Islamic world for nearly 800 years, surviving civil wars, the Crusades, the Mongol invasion, relentless piracy, and rebellions.

 

[Tuor]

Há tempo ainda... Escute o Ragnaros, Bezos!

Enquanto a série n explora Harad e Rhûn, jogar Age of Empires IV pode ser uma boa.

Ver anexo 95136

The Delhi Sultanate in Age IV​

The Delhi Sultanate civilization is at the forefront of technological innovation. They have a strong focus on research and defense, with an edge in technological advancement over other civilizations.

In Age of Empires IV, the Delhi Sultanate civilization is based on the powerful empire formed from the invasion of the Ghurid Dynasty (originating in Persia) into northern India spanning the years 879-1526 CE. For 300 years, this empire shaped an independent Indo-Islamic region, adopting technology present in India.

Advancing through the Ages has you experience this civilization’s rich history. With the first Age reflecting the Turkish and Iranian Ghurid Sultanate, playing the Farsi/Persian-speaking Delhi Sultanate civilization brings you through the Mamluk and Khalji Dynasty, Tughlaq Dynasty, and the Sayyid and Lodi Dynasty—getting a taste for the Delhi Sultanate’s vibrant cultures and defiant strength.

Ver anexo 95142

The Ottomans​

The Ottoman civilization benefits strongly from their military prowess, their Imperial Council system, as well as their unique Military School system.

In Age of Empires IV, the civilization of the Ottomans spans the years from the pre-imperial Ottoman Empire period in the 11th century CE to the mid-16th century CE. Originating in Anatolia, the Ottomans rose to become one of the longest lasting empires in history with its effective and stable government, supported by a famously well-trained and regimented military.

Ver anexo 95139

The Malians​

The Malians focus on strong economic play, making gold and spending gold, and prefer strategic hit-and-run tactics with their unique infantry units instead of prolonged military battles.

In Age of Empires IV, the civilization of the Malians spans the years from the pre-imperial Mali Empire period in the 11th century CE to the early 16th century CE. Uniting from a collection of independent kingdoms, the Malian civilization coalesced into one of the most influential West African empires in history, as well as one of the richest trading nations of all-time.

Ver anexo 95140

Playing The Mongols​

The Mongols are an agile civilization, excelling in hit-and-run military strategies and capable of expanding armies rapidly.

The Mongols civilization in Age of Empires IV are extremely capable in hit-and-run strategies, thanks to their exceptional mobility and nomadic nature originating in the Great Steppes of Central Asia. You witness the Mongols through the Ages, spanning from 1000-1500 CE, as a disciplined civilization, recognized for changing history in connecting the East to the West.

In Age IV, the Mongols are known for their unique structure and are at their most powerful when playing to their strengths in tight groups. They speak Mongolian—the most widely spoken of the Mongolic languages.

Ver anexo 95141

Playing The Abbasid Dynasty​

The Abbasid Dynasty is an adaptive civilization due to their ability to research unique upgrades at the House of Wisdom. These upgrades impact and alter core game elements and mechanics, providing a unique way to build your empire.

In Age of Empires IV, the Abbasid Dynasty civilization spans the years 750-1517 CE and is based on the Abbasid Caliphate and the Mamluk Sultanate. The empire was born in modern-day Iraq, but after the Mongols destroyed its capital of Baghdad in 1258, the seat of power moved to Cairo.

You will experience the “Golden Age of Islam” playing the Abbasid Dynasty – an Arabic-speaking civilization. This period saw flourishing technological innovations as the medieval world raced towards the modern era. The Abbasid Dynasty ruled the spiritual heart of the Islamic world for nearly 800 years, surviving civil wars, the Crusades, the Mongol invasion, relentless piracy, and rebellions.

Que artes conceituais lindas!

 

[Ilmarinen]

Morfydd Clark comentando a revelação do episódio 8 e que já está ciente de quais serão os desdobramentos do final da série em termos do que será mostrado embora não, integralmente, o caminho que fica até lá.

Morfydd Clark Reveals When She Found Out Who Was Sauron in ‘The Rings of Power’

Clark also talks about [spoiler], [spoiler], the Balrog, and more.

collider.com

 

[Ilmarinen]

Ver anexo 95128

Aquele que habita no abrigo do Altíssimo e descansa à sombra do Todo-poderoso pode dizer ao Senhor: "Tu és o meu refúgio e a minha fortaleza, o meu Deus, em quem confio". Ele o livrará do laço do caçador
e do veneno mortal. - Salmo 91

Se você já não o tiver, crie o hábito dos “louvores”. Faço muito uso deles (em latim): o Gloria Patri, o Gloria in Excelsis, o Laudate Dominum; o Laudate Pueri Dominum (do qual gosto especialmente), um dos salmos dominicais; e o Magnificat; também a Litania de Loretto (com a prece Sub tuum praesidium). - Carta 54

Agora coloque a trilha sonora de Vision of Escaflowne aí com a famosa "Chains" da Yoko Kanno.

 

[Eferos Masopias]

Eu já insisti nesta tecla antes mesmo da estreia da Série. ROP podia ter retratado Harad e Rhûn para mostrar uma mitologia e worldbuilding muito maiores do que o que assistimos.

Os Haradrins e os povos do leste já existiam na 2ª Era. Sobre Harad: Tolkien se inspirou na Etiópia para a criação desse povo: http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Haradrim


Sobre os povos do leste. Tolkien falava que era inspirado na Ásia (China, Japão, etc): http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Rhûn#Etymology


Até a fala do Bilbo em enfrentar os "povos dragões do leste", nos primeiros capítulos do Hobbit, possuía uma versão antiga que referenciava a própria China:



Uma pena que a série não explorou essas regiões e homenageou os mitos e histórias da África e Ásia.

Antes de saber que ia ser um elfo, eu achei que o ator do Arondir seria um príncipe ou guerreiro domador de Mumakils nos desertos de Harad, num rito de passagem similar aos Fremen domando um Verme de Areia nos desertos de Duna:

Ver anexo 95129

Ou, quando mostravam as andanças dos personagens no mapa, eu pensei que iam mostrar alguma coisa de Rhûn (talvez mostrem na 2ª temporada) e um oriente místico numa vibe Ashai ou Yiti do mundo de G.R.R Martin:

Ver anexo 95130

Eu me interessei pela mitologia de Tolkien, e pelos livros, após ver esses guerreiros nos filmes:

Haradrim:

Ver anexo 95131

Os orientais:

Ver anexo 95132

O Lore é bem vago. Olha a oportunidade que a série deixou escapar. Além de terem criado os personagens que nos explicariam esses povos obscuros no Legendarium, podiam apresentar os futuros Nazgûl destes povos e como eles foram corrompidos por Sauron.

E retratar que, assim como em Númenor com os fiéis, nem todos os integrantes destas regiões aceitaram a engenharia religiosa Saurônica. Ao invés de Gandalf-Estranho (com a enrolação dos Harfoots), podíamos ter os 2 magos Azuis andando nestas regiões e fazendo os avisos como os 2 anjos que avisaram Lot da destruição de Sodoma e Gomorra:

Ver anexo 95134

Ver anexo 95133

Talvez os roteiristas e produtores tiveram medo de retratar essa diversidade por acharem que iam cair na armadilha do Orientalismo. Então era necessário um grupo mais experiente de roteiristas que fizessem jus ao desafio.

Uma certeza... nós aqui do forum faríamos melhor em termos de narrativa, ideias, roteiros e afins. A Amazon podia entrar com a equipe de efeitos especiais e a grana pra pagar a gente, porque íamos cobrar bem

 

[Mago Véio]

Agora coloque a trilha sonora de Vision of Escaflowne aí com a famosa "Chains" da Yoko Kanno.

Carácoles! Que top isso!!!

 

[Ilmarinen]

Eu concordo que esse episódio ou deveria ter duas horas e meia como o final da última temporada de Stranger Things ou deveria ser de 3 episódios.

Mas, por mim, ainda acho que é só uma preview de "A Forja do Pecado", a minisérie estrelada por Halbrand e Celesukita que vai ser o foco de parte de futuras temporadas.

Tb acho que Sauron sabe bem mais sobre o mithril do que foi permitido ficar óbvio no episódio e que é sobre a amplificação de suas virtudes sobrenaturais que o conselho enviesado de Halbrand se referia e a respeito das quais o Celebrimbor não podia estar tão bem informado já que o ponto crucial de conhecimento envolvia a combinação com outros metais, algo que ele não podia testar previamente sem inutilizar o pequeno suprimento do metal que eles possuíam.

 

[Ilmarinen]

A ex roteirista de Breaking Bad e escritora do último episódio, Gennifer Hutchison falando aí sobre a conclusão:

The Rings Of Power Finale Writer Gennifer Hutchison On Sauron's Reveal, Shipping, And More [Exclusive Interview] - SlashFilm

"If they appear on screen together, they're being shipped."

www.slashfilm.com

 

[Mago Véio]

A ex roteirista de Breaking Bad e escritora do último episódio, Gennifer Hutchison falando aí sobre a conclusão.

Sensacional!

 

[_ Sauron _]

Tb acho que Sauron sabe bem mais sobre o mithril do que foi permitido ficar óbvio no episódio e que é sobre a amplificação de suas virtudes sobrenaturais que o conselho enviesado de Halbrand se referia e a respeito das quais o Celebrimbor não podia estar tão bem informado já que o ponto crucial de conhecimento envolvia a combinação com outros metais, algo que ele não podia testar previamente sem inutilizar o pequeno suprimento do metal que eles possuíam.

Então, mas o problema é: eles fizeram um teste com a pequena quantia que tinham. Não tinha como ele saber que daria certo, a não ser que fosse óbvio (como ele deixou a entender com a fala "como não pensei nisso antes").

 

[Ilmarinen]

Então, mas o problema é: eles fizeram um teste com a pequena quantia que tinham. Não tinha como ele saber que daria certo, a não ser que fosse óbvio (como ele deixou a entender com a fala "como não pensei nisso antes").

Ele passou a achar óbvio depois de Sauron ( Celebrimbor passou a contemplar a via como um intriguing proposition) incutir a possibilidade na cabeça dele e o episódio dá a entender que isso não aconteceu só com persuasão racional no tempo em que eles estiveram agindo e se tornando "familiares" um ao outro.

Não é tão sem precedentes que um conselho dado por alguém com aparente menos know how do que um especialista acabe descortinando uma possibilidade antes ignorada já que a pessoa "de fora" do envolvimento emocional e sem a necessidade de proteger o ego do escrutínio alheio em relação à questão, muitas vezes, pensa "fora da caixinha". E o lance é que o conhecimento de Sauron sobre o mithril provavelmente só APARENTA ser menor do que de Celebrimbor naquele estágio quando, possivelmente, era até maior.

 

[Ilmarinen]

Fui só eu que inclui a senilidade do Celebrimbor no pacote da "diversidade"? Vai ter elfo negro, sim, e vai ter elfo idoso, sim. Por que sim. Em favor da igualdade dos idosos.
Ver anexo 95094Ver anexo 95095

E a melhor:
Ver anexo 95096

Eu tive a impressão de que, internamente, in Universe, pode ser uma maneira de representar a noção de que Celebrimbor, a la Fëanor, sacrificou ou "atou" parte grande de sua essência vital às suas obras "subcriativas"... Fazendo valer a máxima de que não há "verdadeira criação....sem sacrifício".

Que isso teria acelerado o processo de "envelhecimento élfico" dele, talvez um subplot que eles venham a explorar melhor em temporadas futuras onde o custo do forjamento do Anel do Poder para Sauron também venha a ser enfocado de alguma maneira. Um aviso "presente de despedida" de Celebrimbor para quem o traiu.

 

[rebrov]

Eu tive a impressão de que, internamente, in Universe, pode ser uma maneira de representar a noção de que Celebrimbor, a la Fëanor, sacrificou ou "atou" parte grande de sua essência vital às suas obras "subcriativas"... Fazendo valer a máxima de que não há "verdadeira criação....sem sacrifício".

Que isso teria acelerado o processo de "envelhecimento élfico" dele, talvez um subplot que eles venham a explorar melhor em temporadas futuras onde o custo do forjamento do Anel do Poder para Sauron também venha a ser enfocado de alguma maneira. Um aviso "presente de despedida" de Celebrimbor para quem o traiu.

Será que o pessoal da série teria essa, digamos, profundidade?

Ainda assim eu teria curtido mais um Celebrimbor mais jovem de aparência (e mais esperto em relação ao seu próprio ofício ).

 

[Loveless]

Será que o pessoal da série teria essa, digamos, profundidade?

Lendo todos os posts do @Ilmarinen sobre a série, me questiono a mesma coisa. Ele vai num nível de profundidade, de assumir coisas que acho que não passam sequer pela cabeça dos produtores da série.

A primeira temporada se mostrou bem simples e rasa, sem grandes camadas por trás dos acontecimentos. Não vejo porque nas próximas temporadas seria diferente.

 

[Mago Véio]

Quando vejo uma live do Dr. Corey Olsen com mais de 3 horas sobre o último episódio ganhar tantos dedinhos pra baixo:



Tenho a certeza de que a série está no caminho certo.

A complexidade de série reside justamente na sutileza e na delicadeza. Infelizmente...

 

[Ilmarinen]

Lendo todos os posts do @Ilmarinen sobre a série, me questiono a mesma coisa. Ele vai num nível de profundidade, de assumir coisas que acho que não passam sequer pela cabeça dos produtores da série.

A primeira temporada se mostrou bem simples e rasa, sem grandes camadas por trás dos acontecimentos. Não vejo porque nas próximas temporadas seria diferente.

Bom, o Charlie Vickers, o Halbrand-Sauron, andou citando nas entrevistas coisas como o Morgoth's Ring e as cartas dando a entender que foram indicadas pra ele ler pelos produtores pra compor o personagem do Sauron. Coisas muito voltadas pro fã hardcore. Material que vem das mesmas fontes que explicaram os detalhes do envelhecimento e "fading" dos elfos*. É tb desse material que foi extraída a obsessão de Sauron com "ordem", com a idéia de "curar" a Terra-média.

Várias vezes em interviews eles fazem referência a essas coisas que estão nos livros póstumos em contextos que mostram que eles sabem de onde são provenientes certas informações específicas pertinentes à ambientação e ao que eles estão fazendo na série . Então eu acho meio difícil que certos detalhes não passem pelas cabeças deles embora a explicação não dê as caras de bandeja dentro da série pq ou infringem direitos ou não são dramaticamente interessantes pra trabalhar no contexto da edição da série. Do mesmo jeito que, por exemplo, um Peter Jackson deixou o achado da trompa do Boromir pra edição estendida de As Duas Torres mas a excluiu da versão cinematográfica. E/ou deixou de fora a noção de que Denethor e Aragorn tinham mais ou menos a mesma idade mas Denethor acabou envelhecido prematuramente pela exposição ao palantír.

Acho que parte do problema é que eles não podem dar a impressão de citar textualmente esse material sem infringir a restrição sobre os direitos que eles não têm, então eles se valem de formas indiretas de referir esse amontoado de bagagem através de maneiras meio "cifradas".

Uma coisa que me faz pensar que esse elemento do envelhecimento precoce do Celebrimbor tem a ver com coisas que vão acontecer pra frente na série é justamente o fato de não ter sido indagado pra eles nas entrevistas feitas até agora, dando a impressão de que são aquelas questões nas quais eles, intencionalmente, colocam um tipo de interdição pq antecipam certas supresas.

Eles estão fazendo a série pensando em como certas "deixadas" ou lacunas são para serem vistas em retrospectiva mais tarde como eles andaram falando em pedaços assim:

DEADLINE: Sounds like you really have the full five seasons pretty mapped out …
WEBER:

You know things evolve a bit, but from even before I signed on for this job, the guys really wanted to devise a story that would work from service level the first time and then would work on a whole new level when you saw it again with the full knowledge of the season. I would even say after you’ve seen future seasons, go back and look on those things again and view them in a new light. They really have a very careful plan, and as a producer, it’s really exciting to work with filmmakers like that because you can do so many exciting things and build so many layers into it. There are lots of things in there that will be a source of debate and fan engagement and discovery for people for a long, long time

*Let’s talk about how mithril is supposed to cure the sudden fading of the elves, which has been a somewhat controversial addition.
McKAY: There’s this poetic idea in Tolkien about the fading of the elves, that elven immortality has a time limit. It felt important to us to turn up the heat on the frog in the pot, because part of what the rings do is halt this fading. So some of how we came to the mithril and a legend about how it might well actually have magic in it was all a way to wrestle with the canonical problem of elven fading, and how the rings stop it.
PAYNE: In terms of the time scale, the elves in the Third Age are getting ready to leave Middle-earth because whatever happens with the One Ring, their fate is sealed. Their rings become ineffective, or everybody is screwed.

​

‘The Rings of Power’: The Showrunners Unpack That Twisty Finale (Published 2022)

Patrick McKay and J.D. Payne have had to thread a difficult needle, satisfying Tolkien die-hards and average viewers. The finale gave everyone plenty to mull.

www.nytimes.com

‘The Rings of Power’: The Showrunners Unpack That Twisty Finale

Patrick McKay and J.D. Payne have had to thread a difficult needle, satisfying Tolkien die-hards and average viewers. The finale gave everyone plenty to mull.

• 
  
• 
  
• 
  

The showrunners Patrick McKay, left, and J.D. Payne during the production of Season 1 of “The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power.”Credit...Ben Rothstein/Amazon Prime Video

By Jennifer Vineyard
Oct. 14, 2022
This interview includes spoilers for the Season 1 finale of “The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power”
The Amazon prequel series “The Rings of Power” has always had to serve two masters: the most obsessive fans, whose intimate knowledge of the J.R.R. Tolkien Legendarium has empowered them to call out any perceived transgressions, and the general audience, whose knowledge may run only as deep as the Peter Jackson films. Geeks alone won’t pay off the first season’s reported $715 million invoice.
Winning over those average viewers wasn’t easy, though, said Patrick McKay, one of series’s two showrunners, in a group phone call on Wednesday. “It seems such a heavy lift to go, ‘No, you’ll understand; you don’t have to speak Elvish.’”
This week’s season finale neatly underscored the challenge: When Halbrand (Charlie Vickers), one of the apparent central heroes of the series thus far, was revealed to be the supervillain Sauron, it put to rest what, for many fans, had been a season-long guessing game. But how to make those big moments land on multiple levels, when much of the audience may not even have realized they were supposed to be guessing?
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“It’s a question we’re still searching for the answer to,” said the series’s other showrunner, J.D. Payne, who was also on the phone call. “It’s something we’ve talked about a lot throughout the process.”
The solution has been to attempt to tell a story that allows both levels of fandom to meet in the middle, with clear emotional dynamics for everyone and extra lore for the hungry book readers. For example, the writers originally planned to have Galadriel (Morfydd Clark) pursue rumors about a possible successor to Morgoth, whose existence and identity was still unknown. But then McKay and Payne realized they could make Galadriel’s mission much more specific — and more emotional.

• Thanks for reading The Times.

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They worked backward to develop her personal stakes, tying Sauron to the death of her brother, Finrod.

Explore the World of the ‘Lord of the Rings’​

The literary universe built by J.R.R. Tolkien, now adapted into a new series for Amazon Prime Video, has inspired generations of readers and viewers.​

• Artist and Scholar: Tolkien did more than write books. He invented an alternate reality, complete with its own geography, languages and history.
• Being Frodo: The actor Elijah Wood explains why he’ll never be upset at being associated with the “Lord of the Rings” movie series.
• A Soviet Take: A 1991 production based on Tolkien’s novels, recently digitized by a Russian broadcaster, is a time capsule of a bygone era.
• From the Archives: Read what W.H. Auden wrote about “The Fellowship of the Ring,” the first volume of Tolkien’s trilogy, in 1954.

“Even if you know nothing about Tolkien’s Legendarium, you can tell, ‘OK, this guy Sauron is bad news,’” Payne said. “And if you do know, you’ll be like, ‘Oh, Finrod was killed by werewolves that were controlled by Sauron.’”
Taking a break from production for Season 2 outside London, McKay and Payne discussed several revelations from the finale, including the big news about Sauron. These are edited excerpts from the conversation.

As you know, there are multiple Saurons: Sauron who seeks redemption; Sauron the deceiver; Annatar, the lord of gifts. Which Sauron is this?
PATRICK McKAY Those are all ideas we talked about, the idea that he went through a period where he wanted redemption, the idea that he is a deceiver, in disguise, and an opportunist. Sauron might say to Galadriel: “Look, I was ready to walk away. You pulled me into this.” But if you look at the chain of events, he’s been greasing the wheels. He’s been encouraging her.
You could make a really good case that he was at a low point on that raft, and then the magic golden ticket showed up. He was playing hard to get. How many times does he say, “When are you going to get that army?” There’s a really good case to make where he was manipulating and deceiving her every step of the way.
To what extent is he an improviser, an opportunist, a master planner? The missing piece of this guy you’ve gotten to know as Halbrand, who has all of these qualities about him, is that he has another name, and it’s Sauron. And now everything you’ve learned about him means something a little different.
J.D. PAYNE A way we commonly talked about Sauron is that he’s a power addict. There’s a couple of ways we toy with his desire to go on the wagon, so to speak, to renounce power and seek healing. You can view his actions the way you view an addict’s actions because every step they take, they wonder, “Am I getting closer or further away from a fix?” They can always rationalize it: “Oh, I have control over this. I’m fine. I can go to that grocery store.” And the liquor is on Aisle 20. There’s always the addict in Sauron pushing him toward getting into places of power.
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McKAY From Minute 1 in the writers’ room, we were talking about Milton [and his characterization of Lucifer in “Paradise Lost”], Ahab [in “Moby-Dick”], Fagin [in “Oliver Twist”] and Richard III. Not just pure evil and danger, but the complexity of evil. Sauron is a rich character who continues to have layers.

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Among the revelations of the Season 1 finale was confirmation that the Stranger (Daniel Weyman) is an Istari, or wizard.Credit...Ben Rothstein/Amazon Prime Video

What is the nature of Sauron’s relationship with Adar (Joseph Mawle)? Was Adar’s story another lie?
McKAY: The whole idea of Season 1 being an origin story for Mordor, in a way, was one of the early ideas in the writers’ room that we all felt a lot of gravity pulling toward. There are core thematic ideas in the lore about destruction of the environment and evil rising and falling again. Mount Doom goes fallow and then awakens again. There is a cycle that plays out through the centuries. Dramatizing one of those reawakenings felt in harmony with canon to us and potentially delicious.
PAYNE: Adar co-opts the plan for his own purposes, but it still was, basically, Sauron’s plan. If one person designs the car, and the other person builds it, whose car is it? There are multiple ways to read that.
Sauron unlocks the dam, as they put it, with the mithril. How much manipulation happened behind the scenes?
McKAY: That’s an honest breakthrough. Celebrimbor [Charles Edwards] has an idea about creating things that are so beautiful, they could heal the world. On the other side of the map, Sauron is trying to build a power of the unseen world. It’s peanut butter and jelly.
Sauron is powerful, but he is not so powerful that he can engineer everything. We talked a lot about the idea of Steve Jobs over here, Bill Gates over there, and it’s not until the two come together with the right technology that this new power can be harnessed. Sauron needs Celebrimbor as much as Celebrimbor needs the right metal and Sauron’s inspiration for it to all come together.
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Let’s talk about how mithril is supposed to cure the sudden fading of the elves, which has been a somewhat controversial addition.
McKAY: There’s this poetic idea in Tolkien about the fading of the elves, that elven immortality has a time limit. It felt important to us to turn up the heat on the frog in the pot, because part of what the rings do is halt this fading. So some of how we came to the mithril and a legend about how it might well actually have magic in it was all a way to wrestle with the canonical problem of elven fading, and how the rings stop it.
PAYNE: In terms of the time scale, the elves in the Third Age are getting ready to leave Middle-earth because whatever happens with the One Ring, their fate is sealed. Their rings become ineffective, or everybody is screwed. So what was the fading like right before the rings hit pause? They could have been in a desperate place.
How did you handle instances where you might be contradicting the lore?
McKAY: One of the places where we’re taking a real liberty is the time compression. What was important to the Tolkien estate was the principle of the narrative flow and the sequence of events, not the dates. The rings are made here, there’s a war between Sauron and the elves after that, a later Sauron is taken to Númenor, Númenor falls, Gondor is established, and you end up with the Battle of the Last Alliance. Does it matter if a hundred or 500 years passed between those events? No.
The finale reveals that the Stranger (Daniel Weyman) is an Istari, or wizard. Can you confirm which one? Some might think Gandalf, given his comment to “always follow your nose.”
McKAY: Nothing to confirm! One of the earliest ideas we had about the precursor to hobbits was that a being of incredible power lands in their backyard. It was less about who, and more about how this being disrupts this girl’s life. That’s an archetypal, universal and relatable story. He’s on his own journey of self-discovery. He has not yet discovered any name. He doesn’t know, and neither does Nori [Markella Kavenagh]. That’s going to be part of their story moving forward, if and when he does learn his name, or a name.
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Tell me, where is Celeborn, for I much desire to speak with him.
PAYNE: [Laughs.] Galadriel does not say he is dead. She says, “I never saw him again.”
McKAY: Hopefully the delight is that more beloved canonical characters will join the party. Círdan will be part of Season 2.
PAYNE: There are many places Celeborn could be, and many different ways in which he could or could not come back into Galadriel’s life. Middle-earth is wide, and elves are immortal.
Which one of you is Sauron?
McKAY [Laughs.] I am.

 

[Ilmarinen]

Para dar umas risadas:

https://www.reddit.com/r/LOTR_on_Prime/comments/y4r8zf

The tolkien fandom has changed. I feel it on Reddit. I see it on YouTube. I smell it on the neck beards. Much that once was, has not been read. For none now critique, who have read the books.
It began with the forging of the first trailer. 3 teasers were given that showed people of color, most offensive to the “mythology of England.” Seven cast interviews were shown, and because they were unknown, they were not deemed to be great craftsman. And nine. Nine months were gifted to the shit-stirrers on YouTube, who above all else, desired ad revenue.
For within these things was given the mystery and speculation to spread rumors in every social media.
But they, were all of them, deceived. In the land of New Zealand, in the fires of The Rings of Power, JD and Patrick McCay forged in secret… a really good show. And into it they poured research, what I imagine was an underwhelming amount of wokeness, and a deep love of Tolkien.
One by one the episodes dropped, and the criticisms grew to be unfounded.
But there were some who resisted.
A last alliance of neckbeards and ad-revenue junkies decided to try and become film critics to justify their months of hatred, and in the cesspools of YouTube and r/Rings_Of_Power, they shake their fists and yell at clouds.

 

[Ilmarinen]